william.scherk

Michael, you might like the leadership structure of the United Church of Canada (I put the lie to my sweeping I Loathe All Religion claim by excepting this church from my loathe blanket), I think. The leader of the United Church of Canada is called The Moderator. The United united the former Congregationalist and part-Presbyterian churches of Canada, and of all the 'mainline' churces is the most pinko-libertarian of social policies, moderate to the Nth on ecumenical matters. Of interest to your scope of Leadership is the governance structure of some 61 churches that came to unite. They all had congregationalist forms of leadership! I was wrong to state I loathe all religions, or all religion. I loathe, hate, reject only the most extreme behaviour in the religious repertoire, its hate, wars, exclusion, slavery, etcetera. The examples I used in the illustrative video are designed to offset my point: who can credit Religion as the instigator or force behind the Houla Massacre? No, it is the leadership that bears responsibility for the atrocities in this case, not the religious leadership**, but the political. Point to MSK on Houla. Point to MSK on 'behaviour' as the proper focus of both our loathing and our inquiries, and point to MSK for directing us to look at how the human takes the fabric of religion to put to evil ends. Ten points to Haider for a prose-poem listing of the evolution of and historical/cognitive underpinnings of religious Mythos and Organization. At some time in human pre-history the Religion was the world view and the leaders were the interpreters and tale-tellers and explicators. Religions are deeply implicated in the entire rise of the human being from Neandertalish to Objectivish. Further points for patiently correcting an over-correction on my part. We agree on so many things, I prefer to give way on apparent disagreements, in order to advance discussion. Me, I like the detail, the concrete, and in some cases the fine-grain minutia of events and actors. I seek to apply any lessons offered to real events in the here and now. My frame of reference today is the Levant, specifically the religio-political civil war emerging in Syria. On one 'side' the Shia-derived sect of the ruling 'haves' -- the corrupt clan-mafia of the top state, along with various Christian sects, some rooted in the most ancient of indigenous Syriac churches. Opposed, the overwhelming Sunni (rural) majority who have been abused in forty-plus years of 'secular' dictatorship under the Alawi presidency and the officially non-religious Baath movement. In the Houla massacre, a history at dispute (who killed the children?), but not the geography. In the hills, the Alawi villages, in the plain, Houla, Sunni islamic. The ghosts (Alawi-majority irregular militia) of the Shabiha are said to have accompanied Syrian armed forces (along with inevitable security overseers) to the village to engage in savage reprisals against Sunni families believed to support the rebels, following checkpoint attacks. This will be a war divided along sectarian lines, As MSK points out, a premature identification can label the war wrongly as religious, and a premature identification can misjudge the actors and the motivations. Yes we can join in condemning the outrageous and strictly sect-based provocations broadcast on Saudi religious television channels (the Sheik Adnan Aroor called for Syrian Christian to (go to) Beirut, and for Syria's Alawis to (go into) the meatgrinder. He is a leader, not a religion, and a leader of a certain stature compared to the authorities whose orders are followed). We can condemn then the religious expressions that deserve condemnation and be no closer to devising an end or solution or correct motivation to explain the deaths, massacres, bombardments, detentions, and tortures. We can inch up further in the sky and see this as a religious-inflected war between main actors and proxies, Iran/Shia against Saudi-Gulf/Sunni, lonely Shia Syria against ugly crazy Sunni autocracy and harsh repressive religious state. We can inch down toward the ground to Houla and see implacable local conflict between political blocs, not sects, between a 'regime village' and a 'rebel village.' Up in the sky, it seems religious, but down low, it is not so clear. The religious regime in Tehran and Riyadh each tormenting its citizens in similar ways, by holy edict. The 'secular' regime in Damascus fiercely tormenting its people in the name of religious inclusion and a secular state ... So, in sum, I am chastened. I do not loathe all religion or all religions. I cannot do so in practice and so I cannot say I do. When you see me singing along with Gloria In Excelsis Deo at midnight mass this winter, you will understand. Michael is essentially correct to identify Leadership as a foundation, a fundament. I could argue that other fundaments should be included as a frame for view -- Mythos, Institutions and Governance all are necessary to analysis, and where we mis-align in analysis may be merely or mostly in scope, perspectives respective to our elevation in the sky looking down on events and actors and ideologies ... ************************** And to celebrate my return to reason, a blonder secular Canucki Muslim singing a song about homeland and community, not god; song of peace, pride, and reconciliation from a land seething with religious/political conflict (no, not Iraq, Afghanistan): Again I warmly welcome Haider and I again celebrate the breadth and oomph of OL's open-mind policies. Kudos to MSK and Kat on this day of days, the birth day of Our Leader. May you live another 49 years, Maestro! Turn on the fountain of goodness. ________________ ** Oddly, the Alawis of Syria were left no spiritual leadership under the Assad/Baath regime. They have been ruthlessly secularized, Sunnified in allowed expression, and subsumed under The House of Assad. Any tributary evil that pertains solely to Alawism is small to insignificance -- this is a mountain syncretic faith, which has retreated to its bastions under centuries of suspicion, exclusion and sometime persecution. Alawis were stripped of their distinct religious identity and state-educated into fealty to the State and its Leader, thus supporting MSK's point, Haider's view on separation of religion per se from its individual adherents and their behaviour, and not my earlier contention about Religion tout court, thus proving Brant's point as well. Now chastened, I scuttle away to make peace with that man in Arizona.

RE Doha and its Armenian and other churches, And earlier, in 2008, Qatar opens first church, quietlyHere is that church via Google maps: View Larger Map

(with special link to a personal answer to Brant ...) [media=] William, This is where I feel a bit of an outcast in our own little subcommunity. I do not loathe religion. Quality response, thanks. I append the rest of the phrase following the comma: I loathe all religion, but ... wish them all a level playing field to do their dirty business. -- I meant to stress the all in the first phrase, which is lost when the all / level playing field is lost. _________________________ After having charted and depicted the diaspora in the accompanying video, I want my observation and opinion to be clear: the dirty business of religion is as MSK avers, when religion enemy-izes the Others or chattelizes or otherwise dehumanizes its followers and the world outside, to the point of criminal evil. It was religion that scattered the Jews and religion that held them together, religion that ties them, and religion that excludes them from bigoted minds and edicts. At its most extreme, and in most religions grown to stature (save the tame Western reformed churches of Canada and Netherlands, etc) the history of each sect shows its own time of bloodletting or population transfer or conquest or worse. At its worst a powerful religion devolves to punish heresy or patrol thought and behaviour to the extreme, with resultant horror -- if unchecked and uncritiqued, be it by slavering anti-religious nutjob atheists like me or not. I who loathe ALL religion loathe EQUALLY for Dirty Business religion does when given a Driver Seat. I am ecumenical in this loathing, and delimited. I could cherish the good parts of your project, I could and do want your beauty and your songs and your rituals and culture preserved for the ages, and I want your observances to be freely undertaken today in whatever observant community you devise, short of genital mutilation, harem, assault, kidnapping or torture ... but. I am a pinko-libertarian up here in my socialist hellhole. Feel free to enslave your own mind at will and at home and in temple. Keep your crushing hands off your women and do not apply handcuffs to anyone without justice. Then we will all be fine neighbours, as in the hellhole.

Burly OPP bike squad at a flash-mob on the streets of the big TO, packing: Phil I am sure would attest to the armamentarium of the various two-wheeled squads on Toronto streets and byways. I am sure they prefer to taze or gas before shooting, but that is probably only because of all the dang socialist paperwork when you unfasten your holster. And of course the armed cyclists in Montreal are perhaps best represented by their two-wheeled riot squad, also burly, here facing off against those pesky students:

Anyone who can write as smoothly and intelligently (intelligible and rational and responsive as well!) should be an OL 'keeper.' I sent welcome to Haider backstage but here note how well a sophisticated mind at work can charm even the wildest beasts (save Ba'al) ... "I hope you appreciate the care I have to exercise to preserve my life." Said with a smile. How refreshing. in light of a possible festival of invective here. I hope to see our peripatetic LM and our Oish dude in Kuwait get to discussion of some finer points. What is the punishment prescribed for (an avowal of) atheism, I wonder. I should look that up. Kuwait's alliance with the West ought not conceal its strange mix of tribal authoritarian autocracy and gold-leaf democracy. If the 'Arab Spring' ever got to Kuwait, the libertarian in me would rejoice. My favourite part of the Gult is on the outskirts of Doha, where the Armenian and some other stripe of christian worship in new churches. Any so-called Islamic state that not only maintains its synagogues (most do), but has a population in its synagogues is okay by me (speaking as a pinko social-libertarian). Can we name those states for Ba'al? Could they be among the states deserving nuclear glass? Sadly, the largest of these Jew diaspora communities is in the Islamic Republic, next to Tunisia's active Jews. Lebanon, most sadly, has lovely synagogues but only three or four Jews. Damascus has grand synagogues but no rabbi and very quiet prayers. I loathe all religion, but wish them all a level playing field to do their dirty business. This perhaps explains my antipathy to the Ultra side of the Israeli question; a state of and for the Jews. I tend to keep out of Middle East threads and Islam threads since they became infected by Wiigism and cant and Peikovian bombism, and since my obsession with Syria took over that part of my mind capable of sustained research. Though I am sure we are utterly distant on governance issues, I sure am glad OL has Haider as well as LM and a few suspicious folks like Ba'al and the black horse. What other Objectivish site can feature this kind of conversation at the moment? --- On a side stage, discussion between a Kuwaiti Objectivist, who would risk his freedom and his life to speak more freely -- and the usual suspects. On Noodlefood, an exciting new Turnip Stew and Labour Pain Radio Show. On SOLO, screaming nutters and Jesus. Ah, OL the Oasis!

Dodge.

Mikee: "...narrowly survived a recall vote on Tuesday..." This is the scum of the NY Times performing their "news-speak" on the intellectually challenged readership that still buys into their bullshit. With 83.9% of the precincts counted, Walker has 54.40 % of the vote to Barret's 45.00 % which is what we call in the biz ...a fucking landslide, ass kicking victory. Good for Walker and democracy. He keeps office and the world moves on. I point out that the quote from the Traitorous NYT included this phrase contextualizing its early report of a 'narrow win.' (emphasis added): based on early returns and exit polls I think it could be true that all of us, each one, is sometimes stupefied by prejudice. That the New York Times is or was a champion of Fidel Castro ... I do wonder how Brant knows this, having ignored the Gray Lady for nineteen years.

Didn't Richard Lindzen do that? Also, your question slides in the premise that there has been anthropogenic global warming. Disingenuous, Brant. The dispute was over the word "Skepticism" and how awful it is ... perhaps the Skeptic in you can explain why you, Brant, are skeptical of AGW. I make no bones about my own opinions. Indeed I accept the scientific consensus. No 'sliding' ... or if there is sliding in a premise, it is not much different than a premise slid in by Tony: those who support the scientific consensus fear change ... A non-discussant like Dennis can repeat the boilerplate about hysteria and "cherry picked data and bad modeling." He can also urge Tony to "go back and see what basic experiments have been done in support of the physics behind the modeling." But. Upon repeated queries on the point of these "basic experiments," Dennis has been coy. Why? No idea. If I were more cynical I would say he shows bad faith in not plainly referencing this issue once raised by him. I played Hide and Seek until about age ten. Fun then. Not so now. Now Tony also appears to group all who agree with or support the science of global warming into Them. They, the hideous them, well, they "fear change, and delight in hating man's mind to the extent of regulating the hell out of it, and enforcing old collectivist ideologies under a new name." So there. Tony is to my eyes a skeptic/skeptical about AGW. Thus my point was to highlight the odd railing against skepticism when Tony (and Dennis) are archly skeptical themselves on certain issues. Will they explain these seeming discrepancies? I think not.

-- the other thread on Skepticism helps explain: there is a difference between a long-dead philosophical tradition that posits (somewhere) in its most extreme form a Know-Nothing position. This is different from a 'natural' skepticism or the kind of skepticism practised widely in the 'Skeptical Movement.' I noted briefly in the other thread that the movement seems a good fit for the Realist Objectivish among us. Bob, old prejudices die hard. If a commentator cannot mark the difference between a scholastic tradition and the operation/behaviour/practice of skepticism (the spirit of science that was 'skeptical' for example about the God Created It All explanation of life's many forms) -- if a commentator cannot mark and keep in mind the difference ... then there is not much you or I can say. Sometimes the objectivish just need to blow some flames of disdain and dismissal and antipathy, or so it seems. For some -- it is this Thing, this reified thing called Skepticism that attracts ignorant ire. Perhaps one of those who seems to loathe the notion of Skepticism could explain why her or she is 'skeptical' about the extent of anthropogenic global warming. But. Plus ça change and all that ...

!!! Love that video. I could be a radio star!

For more on the likelihood that Gleick forged a key document -- one that drastically overstates contributions by the Koch Brothers to Heartland, among other deceptions -- see Megan McArdle's article in The Atlantic: http://www.theatlant...etenses/253395/ McCardle's speculation is unconvincing -- the summary document ('strategy memo') that Heartland said was grossly incorrect is, um, not grossly incorrect**, thus obviating McCardle's one-eyed stab at document analysis. In any case, the meat of the documents that are plainly acknowledged as authentic tell the story of an institute driven by concerns other than science. The news of its internal policy from the Board level was devastating to its purpose and its purse: these revelations were not news to the 'climate hysterics' on the AGWA side, who had long looked at Heartland with some dismay, but the news was also surprising to its funders. Added to its zany PR campaign failure ... and, well, not good for the Denial HQ. Since the last entries in this thread by Adam and George pertaining to Heartland, the effect of the leaked documents on the Institute appear striking. Last week the Guardian reported that financial issues may prevent future Heartland climate conferences, quoting its honcho: From http://www.guardian....ard-controversy ______________ ** Original analysis quoted from Desmogblog: http://www.desmogblog.com/evaluation-shows-faked-heartland-climate-strategy-memo-authentic

Brant, your line; the great excommunicator -- your invention? If so, kudos.

I know the joke has worn thin, but we can yet contrast the fecundity here at OL with the desert of inanity (and self-regard) at Noodlefood, and on the Video Podcast/Radioshow front, we can give her a run for the tiara of Princess of the Objectivish Internets. Think about it. The grating yowls of a clearly declining Leonard Peikoff, churning out his podcasts week after week, then Diana, working the same crowd, answering the same practical questions as Dear Leader, and both versions -- though often content-rich -- are staggeringly unappealing to the eye or ear. Think about the plunk plink plonk, plink plink plonk of Peikoff's hideous musical intro, and the zero post-production work on Hsieh's money-maker (now switching to Internet Radio format, it seems). Still the dollars flow to those two, for often inane and stupefied 'advice.' With the richness of the stew here at OL, and the vast archives of actual considered arguments, this product could beat them in the market (especially if the market is for Zany non-mainstream Rand-influenced thought). Next on my intros, the remainder of the snark squad, with whom I identify, Ninth and perhaps one other arch and amused participant. I am thinking of PDS, a rivet gun, etc. Then I can move on the front-rank OL honchos, from the VIP quarters, with sober but tart intros for robot-voice musicals featuring the copyrighted product of Campbell, Boydstun, Bissell, etc. Roger, we never talk anymore, sob sob, but can I make you a pilot project: One of your shorter essays done to an orchestral seashore soundtrack, with visuals of the staggering beauty of an industrial landscape? I am stuck, I must admit, with the likes of true scholars like these three gents and the obvious stellar workers such as George H Smith. Wordcrafters and thinkers and a product. Well, the maestro takes little notice of my plots and schemes, but I hope I can help when it comes time to more boldly monetize some of OL's archival treasures; I shall conceive of the Superstars of OL Video series of intros as teasers for that future version of OL (behind the Paywall with Diana and MSK!) ... as of now, DMH compels her visitors and chatters to pony up 'donations' and 'support' packages. As of now OL does only appeal occasionally for server and domain fee pledges. All the riches of the Randian corpus for a price (often grotesque) via ARI, the hours and hour and hours of Peikoff and others on CD(!) and soon download. A rather high paywall that the Revolutions could tear down. All for O and O for all. All for the Party!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxQS0K0dHo?version=3&hl=en_US">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxQS0K0dHo?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true">

Egypt's Mubarak gets life in prison for protesters' deaths

I was educated, like all of my generation, in a genteel black ladies college. My hair and skin tone are not subterfuge, but the sad truth. We have no one like your state assembly lady, but we salute your freedom anyhow. May the Transvaginal Express come to a small Carolina town near you. [media=] Oh, but this from the cutting-room floor for you too, Adam. Not appropriate for a Widow Lady Radio Show, so not for Carol's intro to the All Star Series, but you may savour it anyhow. You never know ...

Carol, there is no text in the video intro to Jonathan's series of PetCam Radio Shows. The sounds are taken from a latin-beat smooth organ bossa nova, a hard Reggaeton old-school beat, and a stinging Mexican horn. Together they sound like the opening moments of Hockey Night In Guadalajara. The picture zooms in to the bonnetted face. It looks eerily like a Zombie Ayn Rand wig on the fabled Radio Show host. Mixed together, the sound tracks indicate a joyful mood with a hint of hijinks to come. That is all I can do for you until the Twenty-first century comes to your computer. Maybe the socialist abortion-advocate librarian will show you how to view the intro on a government-controlled computer. Because, dear heart, next I mean to publish the radio show Video intro for your show.

-- Can I use this copyrighted image for a Britpop ultraviolence remix of Diana Screams, Ninth (see vanilla remix below)? Strains of Pet Shop Boys/Dusty Springfield to go along with Diana, Alex, and the O-Machine? I will do several versions of this new Radio Show video introduction for all my friends at OL. I hope to enjoy Jonathan's video radio show, though have yet to see the sun bonnet, let alone nip-clips. For Adam, I want to keep the guy in the yarmulke at the keyboard that Carol remarked upon, so maybe Torture Christ on St Andrews Love Cross images/spiked on top of J's remix. Including bloody Passion pics from the Philippines, maybe. If he wants. Ninth, I have no idea what music or images you might really want for your own Radio Show video introduction.** On further thought, hmmm, a thought: For a small donation of choice to the Party Fund (November): nothing, time, energy, bitching; I could make a wee bouncy personalized gruesom O-gasm GIF avatar for each cranky and fitful member of the Party committee, each featuring Diana's O-Machine image. "If it makes her scream, imagine what it could do for you!" But. On the personalized radio show intro front, for Carol, I will only settle for a festive new -- but more dour, more chaste-- image of Somebody's Mom to doll up her remix. For music, a stately Scottish Reel, royalist slavery images: ie, stone face of Victoria, the fecund queen, chains, bunting, Tower of London, antique torture rack? Or Big Country skirls. I dunno. I am new at Party work. Shoulder to shoulder, we will usher in a new era of Internet Radio Shows! ________________ ** I posted this on another thread, after having put MSK's words to music and visuals as the First OL Paypal series of video Radio Shows. We will beat Diana at her video O-gasm game! For her Paypal philosopher gaping at her webcam format could use some production values, and we can perhaps provoke her into at least putting on a tiara or putting up images to illustrate her rants. Or something. She needs something with a bit more punch to be the Horsey Atheist Glen Beck of the Colorado Front Range.

SUBJECT: Objectivist Orgasm Endless Loop Okay, first I have to get this out of my system once and for all. To Ninth and Jonathan and the sparks of sharp humour on OL, a loop ... " " -- Something tells me Phil would not approve, but you never know.

I have made making Radio Show videos as easy as pie, Michael! And we can now offer a fun alternative to The Screams Of Diana Hsieh at the same time. I like your comment, and will re-visit it again. I am overdue for a Syria rant in the other place, so it cannot be now (I give you the shameful details of that gig backstage). In the meantime, keep the Fountain of Goodness flowing. We can offer Radio Shows to give the good doctor missus doctor a run for the pay pal. I know, I know, do not let the thread drift drift drift to Diana Hsieh, the Glenn Beck of County Road 676. But, just think -- we could match her her Sunday snoozefest, stitching together a Radio Show response in return. I could just take the best of the week from OL and cut up a video Radio Show to go head to head in the Youtube Sweepstakes. In addition, we can market a deluxe OL Radio Show lineup by monetizing and showcasing our own RICHES here, Michael. If I remember correctly, you own a portion of the copyright on anything I produce here, and so on, and so on. So. The Paul Mawdsley Lectures, a New OL Radio Show! With hypnotic music and empathic pictures. His greatest hits in one 2 hour 3D DVD/download! George H Smith For Ladies Only Anarchy downloads. "She wants Philosophy Inaction videos of her screaming her fool head off? We will show her." If we are going to be arrogant and obnoxious, we can yet still chip out facets awful and wonderful.

The video was remastered a few times and is live again. Like I said, worth a listen just to hear Diana shout and scream her determination. I really like your comment. If I have in any way provoked that kind of incisive, deep reaction, good on me. Thanks! I have been so grossly insulted this past year that I find nothing galling at all in your words. As we chisel we each, the wonderful and awful facets emerge. I should do your comment justice and cast it into a video Radio Show too. With pictures of gross leftist tropes and so on ... too bad for my vanity that you quote only two snippets from my lengthy rant, but we provocateurs take payment in many ways. Food for thought? Food enough for a month of picnics. You have turned on the Fountain of Goodness, I believe. I shall begin my search for images of picnics, cornucopias and fountains. Food for thought and savouring indeed in this comment. Now perhaps you realize why a re-read month--old thread comment can be cheering to me. That is why they pay you the big bucks, Maestro. [media=]

I like this thread's rambling quality. It rambles along noting the values and pitfalls and cast and crew of the Two Poles of Skepticism, the tome-laden approach via the lectern and scholarly missive, and the active operative agent at work in the world. It should give great cheer to any Objectivish-minded person to more perfectly marry the 'good' in Skepticism to Rand, for she was indeed of that vast horde who are skeptical by bent. It was her ruthless criticism of The Norm in her homeland, in her home and in her school that marked her for death by Stalin. Reclaim Rand for small-s skepticism and reclaim skepticism as an acceptable Objectivish activity? That way Objectivists of differing stripe can break bread with some great folks whose interests sometimes align with theirs, go to fun conventions and meet smart atheist ladies who could fall for a Galt. The half-love for Hitchens and Dawkins and other arch-skeptics of religion are an indication to me that the marriage would be effective. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ This ends my missionary work for The Skeptical Movement today.