caroljane

FYI , I consider that Zimmerman was considering himself as the police in that situation. It was the guns that killed Trayvon and Sammy, and neither Zimmerman nor Forcillo should have had one.

No I haven't and I am worried sick. My friend was looking up some information for her and I know she was waiting for it. I have the information, but she hasn't been on. Do you know of anybody who knows how to get a hold of her? I know she was sick and I pray she is ok No, not a soul - I only know her on here. Maybe MSK knows someway? Worried too, Carol

Right now I feel like police everywhere should take longer than an hour , in fact it might be safer if they never showed up at all. Better to spend the money on hockey. In addition to the killing here recently, the 22 officers plus EMTs managed to trample all over the crime scene, kick potential evidence out of the way, and oh yes, taser the suspect after he had been shot nine times and was apparently dead. Nobody bothered to cordon off the witnesses/spectators who were getting a real eyeful.The cops were solely concerned with the "one of their own" who looked like he might get in trouble.

Positively absolutely my last appearance. Sorry PDS but you did ask. I think this expresses carpe diem well: I smile upon my friend today His troubles soon are over |I hearken to my lover's say And happy is the lover. Tis late to hearken, late to smile But better late than never. I shall have lived a little while Before I die for ever.

Do not forget those great lines....... "Get you the sons your fathers got And God will save the Queen!" Cheers William P

Not in especial, he wrote relatively little poetry so jump in anywhere and the pool will be clear and cool. Some of his later poems were especially good translations of Greek or Latin ones. This is from memory but I think it is of that period: "Now to her lap the incestuous earth The son she bore has ta'en And other sons she brings to birth, But not my friend again." When the bells justle in the tower "The hollow night amid \then on my tongue the taste is sour Of all I ever did." AEH was an atheist, by the way. He described himself as a "High Church Atheist", which justled my personal bell.

Cathy, have you heard from Ginny? I am concerned.

What, you mean Obama and the Government mind thugs? Just what I need.

Wellyeah, I think that I think, at least I think so, but really, what do I know? I do not have the cognitive confidence of you all, and the evidence of my senses has let me down before.

Having looked further into the truly terrifying costs of post-secondary ed in the US these days, I feel even more fortunate not just for my own education but for my son's (the other one). He chose community college over university and took a student loan of I think, $2000 (may have been more), worked parttime and as he lived at home, basically cost us nothing, which is about what we could have afforded at the time. He did not choose the most in-demand trade around (radio broadcasting) but he has been self-supporting eversince graduation.

Hey, Robert, threescore and many more! If you lived here you could now be drawing a guaranteed monthly income. But of course you would refuse it on ethical grounds. Very best, Carol

/I was just going to ask that same question, did Rand ever mention the Stoics. Since my tabula on this has been pretty much erasaed, I have exhumed an ancient copy of Arrian/Epictetus ( example of the Virtue of Hoarding!) and googled around. The very first paragraph of Wiki on Stoicism had me thinking, wait a minute, is this Objectivist or what?

Yes, conjectural double negatives are very comforting.

I do, that is why I said "popular". Intend to refresh my knowledge on this, and likely revel in some more AEH who was a fine classicist.

It is nice that somebody knows how I think, because I don't have a clue.

PS you could certainly call John Galt, the ultimate Rand ideal, stoical in the popular sense. He apparently abstained from sex for most of his adulthood and serenely withstood torture, all in support of his highest values.

I studied the stoics at university (have forgotten most) and my impression is of a human sublimity that does not become zen (not that I studied that at all). The influence of stoicism on English literature and upper-class culture was strong. "If" by Kipling was I believe read at Rand's funeral. |She never achieved all the characteristics RK prescribed for his son, especially the part about making allowances for your doubters) "Excelsior" exemplifies it in a Romantic way. And my particular like, Housman, explored stoicism in a bitter, brilliant way imo. And the inarticulate products of the traditional classical education died stoically in WWI, two thousand years after Horatius at the Bridge. I will be interested in seeing commentary by those who have compared the philosophies.

There you go again - trying to put innocent, hardworking bad teachers out of a job!

Unless it turns out the guy with a knife really had a gun, it looks like manslaughter on the face of it. Either it was one cop's gun or two. The evenly spaced shots tend to rule out any more than that. The military trained me to kill, not take prisoners. I was always sensitive to the difference from then--mid-sixties--to now of the essential difference between the mind set and competence of the military vs the police and admired the police for their supposed extra layer of competence. That's been continually evaporated as the police have become more and more militarized. I'm not really gloating, Carol, but I didn't expect such a news story from Canada. While Canada is economically mostly a string of cities bordering the United States it has its own distinct cultural and political identity. I do not like this kind of meld. The U.S. can be a very tough place depending on who you are and where you are in it. I drove an 18-wheeler into Canada two or three times over a decade ago and I always found Canadians, including the French Canadians, interesting, kind and helpful. --Brant then, again, I didn't meet you lol. But you did meet me in a way. If you had driven right across the country I think you would have found the same attitudes and types of people everywhere. Despite regional differences there is a cultural unity among Canadians that maybe is not so pervasive in the US. Much less Heat in our Night. Further thought, this is likely because as you say, most of us live in cities along the border. Also there are only 33 million of us, a significant proportion being immigrants. We have fewer reasons to be suspicious of strangers and more to bond around common concerns. Our .immigrants are not as concentrated in suburban ghettoes, as in France eg. Our immigrants, like yours with bad exceptions, tend to respect the new county's culture in the first generation, embrace it in the second, and embody and enhance it in the third (Nehdri, Kadri et many al) I'll take this opp to repeat one of my fave Kadri anecdotes. His Lebanese grandparents do not speak great English but attend his games faithfully, although their grasp of hockey's rules are still sketchy. Grandma always refers to the penalty box as the "jail". I like to imagine her doing her morning shopping: Morning, Mrs K! How's the family? All well thank God! My grandson he was only in jail two times this weekend!

Doubtful. It isn't profitable for corporations to spend valuable resources providing swaths of U.S. workers with transferable skills and education up-front. It's a speculative assumption that the individual will then come to work for the company instead of going to work for, say, one of company's competitors. It makes much more sense for individuals to invest in their own human capital and evaluate their options through traditional price mechanisms. Unfortunately, government subsidization and investment in higher education has inflated the cost of obtaining an education far beyond what a free market would dicate, so the traditional price mechanisms no longer functioning properly. Agree, also given the pace of change in tech and markets, the corporations would garner only graduates trained for "yesterday's workplace".

Here is what haunts me. After the first three shots, when Sammy was lying on the floor motionless, he might possibly have been still alive. Still alive.

At least narcissism is relatively harmless. Whatever Obama's got is a real threat... Carol: No, never, twasnt I. On "little" jokes, or on socialists being mentally ill. (Look to someone closer at hand...hint...hint). My jokes are BIG, if so dry they are dessicated - and what I think of socialists is unprintable. Calvin: Spoken evidently as someone who has fortunately not been intimate with a narcissist. Sorry Tony! It's just that sometimes all you Objectivists look alike - as to the narcissists, OL history shows that considerable harm has been done to MSK and other good-faith members here from such a source.

The "subject officer" has been suspended from duty, with pay . this is in fact not routine in such cases, nor is the Chief of Police making a very conciliatory statement to the dead boy's family. There are 22 "witness officers" plus the videos and several passenger witnesses.

As to decent paying jobs that require only high school - when a rare opening for subway janitors comes up, there are usually around 800 people fighting for one mop handle.A My son, who had never even picked his own clothes up off the floor, was one of the lucky ones. He proudly pushed his broom until he got in trouble for helping an old lady up the stairs with her groceries one day. Then he managed a transfer to trackworker, and plans to upgrade to a trade via night college.

Or perhaps the requirements are so highly niche-specialized that "Skills shortage" really exists in those niches. I don't know technology but I keep hearing this about it.