caroljane

I don't know why these multiples keep showing up. I only push quote once and edit out the extras, but when I push save changes, they just reappear. Blame the coelacanth.

Whoa.... A right to be stupid? So attacking someone is just "stupid" but killing someone in self-defense is infringing on another individual's right to stupidity? Whoa.... A right to be stupid? So attacking someone is just "stupid" but killing someone in self-defense is infringing on another individual's right to stupidity? Killing infringes on an individual's fundamental right to life, and if that life is stupid it is still a life.

Why is it just an unfortunate event if someone falls onto the subway tracks and gets killed, but if they threaten or attack someone and get killed then all of a sudden it's an avoidable death? Threatening to kill someone or attacking someone should be considered equally as stupid as fooling around on the subway tracks, and people should expect it to be dangerous. Why is it just an unfortunate event if someone falls onto the subway tracks and gets killed, but if they threaten or attack someone and get killed then all of a sudden it's an avoidable death? Threatening to kill someone or attacking someone should be considered equally as stupid as fooling around on the subway tracks, and people should expect it to be dangerous. Why is it just an unfortunate event if someone falls onto the subway tracks and gets killed, but if they threaten or attack someone and get killed then all of a sudden it's an avoidable death? Threatening to kill someone or attacking someone should be considered equally as stupid as fooling around on the subway tracks, and people should expect it to be dangerous. Why is it just an unfortunate event if someone falls onto the subway tracks and gets killed, but if they threaten or attack someone and get killed then all of a sudden it's an avoidable death? Threatening to kill someone or attacking someone should be considered equally as stupid as fooling around on the subway tracks, and people should expect it to be dangerous. Because everyone has a right to be stupid, unfortunately. But as Rand said, not a right to kill people.

Carol: Except when she is wrong as in this case. I have had guns all my life, properly trained. A handgun is a tool for protecting yourself. It is a shield which converts to a sword when necessary. More people are killed with knives than you could possibly believe. Now let us say that the members of that group that attempted to murder George's truck driver had grown up in a civilly armed society, one of two (2) possibilities would have developed from their exposure to that civilly armed society: 1) they would have been walking on tip toes and much more cordial and respectful; or 2) someone would have killed them long ago. The results are a more courteous society wherein people respect each other because they have to. Additionally, rape and assaults on women decreases dramatically when the civil citizenry are armed. You may not like what I am saying, but it is a fact of reality. More guns, less crime. Adam Carol: Except when she is wrong as in this case. I have had guns all my life, properly trained. A handgun is a tool for protecting yourself. It is a shield which converts to a sword when necessary. More people are killed with knives than you could possibly believe. Now let us say that the members of that group that attempted to murder George's truck driver had grown up in a civilly armed society, one of two (2) possibilities would have developed from their exposure to that civilly armed society: 1) they would have been walking on tip toes and much more cordial and respectful; or 2) someone would have killed them long ago. The results are a more courteous society wherein people respect each other because they have to. Additionally, rape and assaults on women decreases dramatically when the civil citizenry are armed. You may not like what I am saying, but it is a fact of reality. More guns, less crime. Adam More guns, fewer people.

Ouch, ouch all over.

It came up on another thread, Ayn Rand on Gun control I think...I assumed it was accurate,

I was just I am just saying, that "life" and "proper life" are not synonymous.

Well he's not going to have a proper life without food, is he? He needs freedom as much as he needs food to have a proper life. Maybe "like" was the wrong word. Well he's not going to have a proper life without food, is he? He needs freedom as much as he needs food to have a proper life. Maybe "like" was the wrong word. Sorry, I don't mean to be nit-picky about the point you are making. But you are arguing from analogy so the analogy must be balanced, and "life" (physical existence) does not equate logically with "proper life" --proper life presupposes physical existence.

That was Wes Studi. --Brant That was Wes Studi. --Brant Thanks for the name Brant - I looked him up and was surprised to see he grew up speaking only Cherokee - also that he is a Vietnam vet, at around the same time as you (?) What a presence he is on the screen.

Proving that with words you can win, -- and those words were hardly kind. George's words were about a gun, but he had no actual gun, he was threatening to use one. If he had had that Walther, and if that despicable excuse for a human being he was talking to had had one, what would have happened? You are making my points for me.

This is a dumb analysis. This was reverse-racism in action, with a touch of police laziness thrown in for good measure. This was a serious case of assault. If the races had been reversed, you can bet your bottom dollar that the attacker would have been arrested. I had all kinds of problems with that creep upstairs. The worst happened around 4 in the morning on a Wednesday ,while that guy and around twenty of his friends were stomping on the floor directly above my dining room. I am a late-nighter, so I was up, working at my computer, in another room. I suddenly heard this tremendous crash. It sounded like a bomb had gone off, as well over half of my dining room ceiling came crashing to the floor. There were huge chunks of heavy plaster everywhere, and dust filled my entire place. I could easily have been killed had I been in the room at the time. I immediately called the cops. They arrived in around 40 minutes, i.e, a little before 5 a.m. One of them was that same female punk. When they knocked on the door, I told them to step in so they could see the mess -- and it was a real mess, not just a few pieces here and there. I told them that the people upstairs had been jumping up and down so hard (I guess they were dancing) that they caved in nearly my entire ceiling. Moreover, the music was still blaring. Do you know what that bitch said to me? "Well, what do you expect us to do about it?" Honest to god, that is exactly what she said. My landlord evicted that creep after this, but this took nearly six months. Meanwhile, since the creep blamed me for the eviction, he threatened to beat my "punk ass" a number of times, he kicked down my cellar door, he flooded my living room while I wasn't home by letting his tub overflow (this ruined a couch and over 100 books, which he thought was hilarious), and he pulled a bunch of other stunts. I called the cops several times, and they "talked" to him a few times, but that was it. The last time I called, the same bitch said that they had talked to him about the problem before, and that I should stop calling. When I noted that he had threatened to beat me up several times, she said that he probably didn't mean it. Ghs This is a dumb analysis. This was reverse-racism in action, with a touch of police laziness thrown in for good measure. This was a serious case of assault. If the races had been reversed, you can bet your bottom dollar that the attacker would have been arrested. I had all kinds of problems with that creep upstairs. The worst happened around 4 in the morning on a Wednesday ,while that guy and around twenty of his friends were stomping on the floor directly above my dining room. I am a late-nighter, so I was up, working at my computer, in another room. I suddenly heard this tremendous crash. It sounded like a bomb had gone off, as well over half of my dining room ceiling came crashing to the floor. There were huge chunks of heavy plaster everywhere, and dust filled my entire place. I could easily have been killed had I been in the room at the time. I immediately called the cops. They arrived in around 40 minutes, i.e, a little before 5 a.m. One of them was that same female punk. When they knocked on the door, I told them to step in so they could see the mess -- and it was a real mess, not just a few pieces here and there. I told them that the people upstairs had been jumping up and down so hard (I guess they were dancing) that they caved in nearly my entire ceiling. Moreover, the music was still blaring. Do you know what that bitch said to me? "Well, what do you expect us to do about it?" Honest to god, that is exactly what she said. My landlord evicted that creep after this, but this took nearly six months. Meanwhile, since the creep blamed me for the eviction, he threatened to beat my "punk ass" a number of times, he kicked down my cellar door, he flooded my living room while I wasn't home by letting his tub overflow (this ruined a couch and over 100 books, which he thought was hilarious), and he pulled a bunch of other stunts. I called the cops several times, and they "talked" to him a few times, but that was it. The last time I called, the same bitch said that they had talked to him about the problem before, and that I should stop calling. When I noted that he had threatened to beat me up several times, she said that he probably didn't mean it. Ghs With respect, George, how many times did he beat you up? Those people were horrible, and if the police protected them due to racism, that was horrible too. My only point here was just me dragging out the equine corpse again: everyone is still alive. If you had all been armed and used that fact to "defend" yourselves against each other, would that still be so? I know you are an anarchist, and against government, and for all I know laws ( I should know this, because I do read your threads but mostly the history ones). The only anarchist society blueprint I ever read (not yours), it seemed that society would be regulated by insurance companies. And I am sure that reams of words have been written about private security companies and compensation and so on in a governmentless society. But the only sensible comment at the root of the whole issue of an armed citizenry I have read was made by Ayn Rand: the handgun is a tool for killing people. That's all she said, and when she's right, she's right.

I am no logician but there is something wrong here. . Man does not need freedom "Like" he needs food at all. Man needs food to sustain physical life. He, per your proposition, needs freedom for "proper life". Two different statements.

I agree that he would have a strong case if these facts are established, yet I have not seen any confirmation that he was a formal member of a neighbourhood watch group, -- his calling police on seeing a "suspicious person" would seem to indicate that he was. Yet directly disobeying the instructions he got - not to follow - seems to indicate that he wasn't. Of course we must wait for incontrovertible facts to be presented. But it would not be human, not to speculate from the facts we know, in such a strikingly tragic case. Carol: The call he made to 911 was to a civilian dispatcher and not a police officer. Adam Another thing: the police can take forever to respond to a call like this. I know this from personal experience. Around three years ago, a white guy who lived in the house on the other side of my driveway got into a serious argument with a young black guy (who lived upstairs from me at the time) and several of his friends. The white guy was a truck driver who kept erratic hours, and the guys upstairs, most of whom were not even supposed to live there, would frequently hold raucous parties, even on weeknights, that lasted until 3 or 4 in the morning. They would invite a bunch of people to these parties, and these inconsiderable dolts would park in the driveway, thereby blocking all other cars from entering or leaving. Well, the truck driver came home late at night, after a 3-day haul, only to find he couldn't pull into his place. He got out and stomped upstairs and told everyone to move their cars. I could hear loud voices, but everyone eventually came down. The fireworks began when he told the guy who was actually renting the place not to let his friends block the driveway any more. (This was around midnight on a Tuesday.) I was standing on my porch with my dog, and as I saw five of these inebriated punks surround my neighbor, I noticed that one was holding a 2X4 that had picked up from a pile of lumber. I immediately called 911, explaining the situation and saying that I was certain a fight was about to start. I said, "You really need to get some officers over here right away, or someone might get seriously hurt." 10 minutes passed, as the argument continued, as the shouting got louder, and as racial epithets by the black guys got intense (honky, cracker, etc.) I then call 911 again. I was very emphatic. I said, "There are five drunk black guys here threatening to "beat the shit" out of a white guy. One of them is waving a 2X4 around. There is going to be a serious racial fight here. We need some cops over here, NOW!" The response? "Sir, some officers will be there as soon as possible." I said, "This is a Tuesday night in Bloomington. How busy can they be?" Another five minutes passed, after which the truck driver, standing in his own back yard, squared-off with one of the black guys. They stood nose-to-nose, and the white guy, who had not used a racial epithet before this, said, "Get out of my yard, nigger, and leave me alone." He then turned around and tried to walk away. As he reached his porch steps -- thud! -- he was hit, hard, on the side of his head with that 2x4. As he feel to his knees, holding his head and with blood oozing between his fingers, the rest of the gang started kicking him. I ran across the driveway as I called 911 for the third time. I said, "Someone has been badly injured here; we need an ambulance." I then told everyone to "knock it off," that the cops were on the way, and that they better get "out of here" if they didn't want to go to jail. All of them took off, except the guy who actually lived upstairs. The ambulance and cops arrived five minutes later (20 minutes after my initial call). The truck driver spent three days in the hospital and came home with a stitched and bandaged head. Two cops interviewed me and my upstairs neighbor. They didn't arrest anyone. When I asked why not (my upstairs neighbor was the one with the 2X4), an obnoxious punk of a female cop said to me, in a condescending manner, "Sir, your friend used the N-word. He should not have done that." I replied: "So does that mean they had a right to split his skull open? Besides, they were calling him all kind of racial names long before this happened. He tried to walk away, and he was struck from behind." Nothing was ever done about this. Government efficiency and justice in action. Ghs I agree that he would have a strong case if these facts are established, yet I have not seen any confirmation that he was a formal member of a neighbourhood watch group, -- his calling police on seeing a "suspicious person" would seem to indicate that he was. Yet directly disobeying the instructions he got - not to follow - seems to indicate that he wasn't. Of course we must wait for incontrovertible facts to be presented. But it would not be human, not to speculate from the facts we know, in such a strikingly tragic case. Carol: The call he made to 911 was to a civilian dispatcher and not a police officer. Adam Another thing: the police can take forever to respond to a call like this. I know this from personal experience. Around three years ago, a white guy who lived in the house on the other side of my driveway got into a serious argument with a young black guy (who lived upstairs from me at the time) and several of his friends. The white guy was a truck driver who kept erratic hours, and the guys upstairs, most of whom were not even supposed to live there, would frequently hold raucous parties, even on weeknights, that lasted until 3 or 4 in the morning. They would invite a bunch of people to these parties, and these inconsiderable dolts would park in the driveway, thereby blocking all other cars from entering or leaving. Well, the truck driver came home late at night, after a 3-day haul, only to find he couldn't pull into his place. He got out and stomped upstairs and told everyone to move their cars. I could hear loud voices, but everyone eventually came down. The fireworks began when he told the guy who was actually renting the place not to let his friends block the driveway any more. (This was around midnight on a Tuesday.) I was standing on my porch with my dog, and as I saw five of these inebriated punks surround my neighbor, I noticed that one was holding a 2X4 that had picked up from a pile of lumber. I immediately called 911, explaining the situation and saying that I was certain a fight was about to start. I said, "You really need to get some officers over here right away, or someone might get seriously hurt." 10 minutes passed, as the argument continued, as the shouting got louder, and as racial epithets by the black guys got intense (honky, cracker, etc.) I then call 911 again. I was very emphatic. I said, "There are five drunk black guys here threatening to "beat the shit" out of a white guy. One of them is waving a 2X4 around. There is going to be a serious racial fight here. We need some cops over here, NOW!" The response? "Sir, some officers will be there as soon as possible." I said, "This is a Tuesday night in Bloomington. How busy can they be?" Another five minutes passed, after which the truck driver, standing in his own back yard, squared-off with one of the black guys. They stood nose-to-nose, and the white guy, who had not used a racial epithet before this, said, "Get out of my yard, nigger, and leave me alone." He then turned around and tried to walk away. As he reached his porch steps -- thud! -- he was hit, hard, on the side of his head with that 2x4. As he feel to his knees, holding his head and with blood oozing between his fingers, the rest of the gang started kicking him. I ran across the driveway as I called 911 for the third time. I said, "Someone has been badly injured here; we need an ambulance." I then told everyone to "knock it off," that the cops were on the way, and that they better get "out of here" if they didn't want to go to jail. All of them took off, except the guy who actually lived upstairs. The ambulance and cops arrived five minutes later (20 minutes after my initial call). The truck driver spent three days in the hospital and came home with a stitched and bandaged head. Two cops interviewed me and my upstairs neighbor. They didn't arrest anyone. When I asked why not (my upstairs neighbor was the one with the 2X4), an obnoxious punk of a female cop said to me, in a condescending manner, "Sir, your friend used the N-word. He should not have done that." I replied: "So does that mean they had a right to split his skull open? Besides, they were calling him all kind of racial names long before this happened. He tried to walk away, and he was struck from behind." Nothing was ever done about this. Government efficiency and justice in action. Ghs There was some government efficiency in there somewhere, in that the only weapons used were words and lumber, and presumably your neighbours and the inconsiderable dolts ( although they seem to have been considerably doltish) all still are living their lives, doltish and racist as they might be. I assume the Illinois government did not have a stand your ground law, and the NRA & co. had not been hustling around the neighbourhood with great specials on Saturday Night Specials. If everyone had been armed, indeed dear self and property could have been defended: and. or. a lot of people could have been dead,including you.

My NY Ranger fans are already prepared for us to choke after the OT loss in game two (2). Apparently, the refs have lost total control over the ice in the Philadelphia - Pittsburg series. My NY Ranger fans are already prepared for us to choke after the OT loss in game two (2). Apparently, the refs have lost total control over the ice in the Philadelphia - Pittsburg series. Fickle New Yorkers are doomsaying after one playoff loss? For Ranger fans it was the eternal banishment from the Stanley Cup until recently. 1993–94 Stanley Cup: the ending of the curse The 1993–94 season was a successful one for Rangers fans, as Mike Keenan led the Rangers to their first Stanley Cup championship in 54 years.[2] Two years prior, they picked up center Mark Messier, a part of the Edmonton Oilers' Cup-winning teams. Other ex-Oilers on the Rangers included Adam Graves, Esa Tikkanen, Craig MacTavish and Glenn Anderson. Graves would set a team record with 52 goals, breaking the old record of 50 held by Vic Hadfield. My NY Ranger fans are already prepared for us to choke after the OT loss in game two (2). Apparently, the refs have lost total control over the ice in the Philadelphia - Pittsburg series. My NY Ranger fans are already prepared for us to choke after the OT loss in game two (2). Apparently, the refs have lost total control over the ice in the Philadelphia - Pittsburg series. Fickle New Yorkers are doomsaying after one playoff loss? For Ranger fans it was the eternal banishment from the Stanley Cup until recently. 1993–94 Stanley Cup: the ending of the curse The 1993–94 season was a successful one for Rangers fans, as Mike Keenan led the Rangers to their first Stanley Cup championship in 54 years.[2] Two years prior, they picked up center Mark Messier, a part of the Edmonton Oilers' Cup-winning teams. Other ex-Oilers on the Rangers included Adam Graves, Esa Tikkanen, Craig MacTavish and Glenn Anderson. Graves would set a team record with 52 goals, breaking the old record of 50 held by Vic Hadfield. And the Oilers, the most deserving of all, still aren't in it! Oh, gall and wormwood!

My NY Ranger fans are already prepared for us to choke after the OT loss in game two (2). Apparently, the refs have lost total control over the ice in the Philadelphia - Pittsburg series. My NY Ranger fans are already prepared for us to choke after the OT loss in game two (2). Apparently, the refs have lost total control over the ice in the Philadelphia - Pittsburg series. What is happening to the attention span of fans? Leafs fans have suffered 43 years of degrading ignominy, but the majority never say die. Fickle New Yorkers are doomsaying after one playoff loss? I agree that the Pens and Flyers are out of control, it is far too soon for this kind of discipline loss (or calculated thuggery) and neither team will do well if they keep on in this vein, whoever wins this round. That said, after two weeks of computer woes I have descended to the Hanson Bros. method of machine repair with this coelacanth I am typing on. It's the only thing it understands.

Here's one for Rangers fans - "The Ottawa Senators decided that it would be fun this year to suffer a crushing defeat from a different Original Six team>" -Downgoesbrown This from our own Ontario hockey columnist. We're bitter here, I tell you.

I just ran across this and for the one and only time in my life I agree completely with Gulch8. The Last of the Mohicans is one of the most beautiful movies I have ever seen, --to my mind though the real star was not Lewis, great as he is, but the actor who played the Indian villain.He just dominated the screen whenever he was on. Does anyone know what happened (if anything) with the proposed Spielberg Lincoln movie? Whatever they do with it , it would be brilliant with DDL in the lead.

I agree that he would have a strong case if these facts are established, yet I have not seen any confirmation that he was a formal member of a neighbourhood watch group, -- his calling police on seeing a "suspicious person" would seem to indicate that he was. Yet directly disobeying the instructions he got - not to follow - seems to indicate that he wasn't. Of course we must wait for incontrovertible facts to be presented. But it would not be human, not to speculate from the facts we know, in such a strikingly tragic case.

Cheri, I think you are a jewel of the desert. First the Coyotes make it into the playoffs, and now you appear on OL! Who woulda thunk it? I'd like to address a couple of your questions, as a non Objectivist who has observed them. Do parents love their children unconditionally? When Objectivists have children they become parents, and rationalize the hell out of their previous parental theories, in order to reconcile their instinctive feelings with their strongest held beliefs. Just like regular parents. Do old Objectivists die, fade away or go out in a blaze of glory? They tend to harden and sometimes go to extremes in their political beliefs and private worldviews. But their social behaviour, if they are connected to society by the usual bonds of family and friendship, is the same as everyone else's. They're usually not dangerous to themselves or others. It's good to have you here and I hope you can find time to visit often.

The right to self defense is meaningless if people don't have the means to defend themselves. These "grotesque laws" as you call them provide the means. Very few people could successfully defend themselves against a 6 foot + angry 17 year old sitting on their chest pounding their head into the pavement. Very few would follow such a person, although told by a 911 operator not not to do so. Very few armed citizens would defend themselves, not by threatening an unarmed stranger with the gun,after being "attacked", but by killing him. One report I read was by the mortician at the funeral home, who said there were no marks on Martin's body indicative of a fight, only the fatal bullet wound. Of course, autopsy photos when released will test the truth of his statement. As to the wounds Zimmerman bore when he walked into the police station 40 minutes after the killing, we have his words as to what happened.

Go for it Dennis - the few-day fantasy could become a lifelong dream. Who would have thought at season start, that outside of the Canucks the one and only Canadian team in the playoffs would be the lowly Senators. I have never had eny enthusiasm for them.I spent four years in Ottawa and it is my least favourite city. But I have to root for them now, because just as most of the NHL revenue is generated by the Canadian teams and spent amongst the American ones, so is the fanblood. I don't like the excessive physicality of the playoff openers. Stopp hitting each other on the head, guys. It's interesting that although few OLers care, or even are aware of hockey, each of these few has a team in the playoffs except, well, me. I don't even have my 2nd or 3rd favourites. But I will cast off the sackcloth and ashes of the neverending Lent of Leafs Nation to salute you and the Kings, Dennis. ; Aristocrates and the Predators) he said they would make it and he was right; Ninth and his plastic rat catchers;PDS and the Wings ; Brant and the Arizona Whatstheirnames; and Adam, who gloated too soon-- but cheer up; Hillary C has bet our Foreign Minister on the series, and if worst comes to worst, you will get to see her decked out in Republican red

"From what I've seen, the race issue was trumped up by lefties for political reasons, including an attack on "stand your ground" laws. I've been watching "Hardball" as I write this, and it included a segment on the need for greater gun control. The same is true of Al Sharpton's program earlier today."-Ghs The race issue is trumped up by lefties for political reasons, true, The stand your ground laws enable racism ("Of course he would have killed me! He's not the same colour as me! ") just as early gun control laws enabled racism ("don't give him a gun! He's black - the worst kind - a free black!" These grotesque laws exist only because the sponsors want a gun in every pocket and a spare in every house. They should be attacked, and defeated.

Heh. The founding father did not foresee, as he could not have been expected to, the 21st century in which there was no snow in Toronto this year, - and the things there are none of in America, would indeed give him the shivers. Carol glowing with suntan on the deck Why didn't entrepreneurs bring in snow-making machines? --Brant the curse of socialism? I cannot find "entrepreneur" in my Oxford Canadian Dictionary, so the answer to your question is probably, because we do not have any entrepreneurs here, whoever they are.

Heh. The founding father did not foresee, as he could not have been expected to, the 21st century in which there was no snow in Toronto this year, - and the things there are none of in America, would indeed give him the shivers. Carol glowing with suntan on the deck Why didn't entrepreneurs bring in snow-making machines? --Brant the curse of socialism? I cannot find "entrepreneur" in my Oxford Canadian Dictionary, so the answer to your question is probabl, because we do not have any entrepreneurs here, whoever they are.

Oh, Ok. I can get hold of a whole bunch of blue and white ones with paper head bags accessories. One of them is tailored to a puppy however.