caroljane

It's yielded a unique maple syrup, rich and sweet.

--Brant That kind of thing happens in America too, if you don't tow the line. Shayne It's toe, not tow,.. Carol irritating interjecting pedant Somebody has to do it

I went to camp from ages 8-14, and then again as a counsellor at 15. Not in Norway, but camp is camp. Ours was an Anglican one.. not so different really, in fundamentals, from Norwegian Labour, This creature took my wonderland, my joyful innocence and hope, my Disneyland and turned it into Auschwitz. He took 93 irreplaceable souls and bodies, and intended to take more. I suppose in prison he will write his Mein Kampf.

I cannot remember right now how many times I complained about depression in myself and my family here at OL. Probably not once, but perhaps backstage. I would be way too wary of jeering to dig up my mental yard and basement for spectators, perhaps. But count me in as one of those who seems to have budded off a tree of established dark depressive sap. I have been sapped by this thing, and I struggle manfully to resist it. Andre, do keep in touch with those you feel you can trust whom you met here: but maybe travailing over mental woes on a forum is too fraught with pitfalls. I would say, having walked the track along with you and Kat, that your best ally (beside yourself) is the doctor and his professional, evidence/science-based suggestions, at your pace and with your full, actively-informed participation. Collaborate with him on your mental health, and wisely ignore ignorance and malice. 2 cents from a daemon in Vancouver . . . I cannot find anywhere you have complained, about anything. The urge to compare experiences (did you ever go psychotic? Whoa, did you ever forget to go left or right in a crowd/how to buy more than 2 things in a store?)how to go into a store when you know absolutely that you don't deserve to buy anything?) this seems to be more absent in depressives --- maybe it just seems too commonplace, amongst us, to comment on.

No, and I probably won't get around to it for quite a while, if ever. I am not a fan of Gordon Wood, to say the least. Wood was a pioneer in what is called the "classical republican" or "civic humanist" interpretation of the political philosophy of the Founding Fathers. (The other pioneer was J.G.A. Pocock, especially in The Machiavellian Moment, but Pocock focuses on English rather than on American thought.) Wood's most famous book is the 650-page volume, The Creation of the American Republic 1776-1787 (1969). This highly influential book did more to mislead historians and distort our understanding of 18th century American political thought than any other book ever published. Here are just a few samples of Wood's nonsense: Although this kind of crap has been thoroughly demolished by many historians --including the libertarian Ronald Hamowy, professor of history emeritus at the University of Alberta -- it is still influential. Ghs Addendum: The best extended critique and correction of Wood is Jerome Huyler's superb book, Locke in America: The Moral Philosophy of the Founding Era (1995). I gather than Huyler is an O'ist of some kind, perhaps even an orthodox one. In any case, unlike some O'ists, Huyler is a real historian who knows his stuff. Thanks for the reply. The review I read was in the NYT review of books and was obviously by an admirer, maybe even a former student - what a quagmire book reviewing is!

Consider the number of people who have tattoos nowadays, there is absolutely nothing rebellious about them. Tattoos seem to be a way for a person to say: "Hey, I'm rebellious," without actually doing anything rebellious. It's counterfeit individualism. Sportswriter Jason Whitlock believes that tattoos reflect a great deal of insecurity on the part of the person who has them. I happen to agree with him. My own experience with tattooed people confirms this. You're right. It is counterfeit individualism. Nathaniel Branden nailed that one on the head in his 1962 article in The Objectivist Newsletter. There are some exceptions, to be sure, but I find tattoos in general to be indicative of a lack of intelligence and self-respect. Apparently some women are attracted to men with tattoos. They must think it's a sign that the guy is a "bad boy" when all it really indicates is stupidity and a lack of self-confidence. (Perhaps that's what such women secretly like about "bad boys.") Talk show host Dennis Prager says he decides which NBA team to root for based on which team's players have the fewest tattoos. I feel the same way. We are forgetting the traditional roots here. First the naval tradition - I had two sailor uncles with small tattoos. And memorialist. My younger son has one tattoo, a Canadian flag overlaid with the Scottish flag, and his father's name and years of birth and death. He got it at age 21, because he respected my wishes that he not do it until his formal age of majority. He had wanted to do it since his father died when he had just turned 18.

Btw Andre, you live in Brazil but are a fluent English speaker , who left school at 13-- as a language teacher I am curious about this!

FRATERNAL ORDER OF THE SACRED IGLOO Local 13 Dear Brothers, I am back and with renewed dedication to our timeless values of Brotherhood and all it entails, especially the joys of family after renewing vows with my dear Claudine who has had to stay down there even though it is really too hot for her. I got a good look at the rest of Parliament and saw that of course she would never be tempted to stray by any of those losers, even if they did win elections, I am ashamed that I had Doubts especially when I looked at some of the Albertans. Back to business with finding the Grand Shaman again, and Brother the other Gord's sensational photos of the Duchess of Cambridge which his cousin sent him from Yellowknife, first on agenda of tomorrow's meeting. Glad to be back in the cold, Gord Asst. Shaman

I thought she was beautiful too. My son's (non-tattooed, non-beehived) ex girlfriend looks astonishingly like her, even has a similar name. What a great though portentous name -- if you're a Winehouse who enters the House of Soul, you're tempting fate for sure.

dupe, sorry

Just an aside: there's no difference in principle between the Federal government being sovereign, and a multiplicity of smaller States being sovereign. So this dispute of theirs was just quibbling (neither the nation nor the state should be at the center; the individual's sovereignty should). There was far more involved in this debate than mere quibbling, but there would be no point in explaining the details, to you at least. The vast majority of the disputants agreed that individual sovereignty is the foundation of political authority. That was never a serious point of contention. Ghs George have you read Gordon Woods' new book? If you've mentioned it elsewhere, sorry I missed it, I saw a review of it and thought it looks like Ghs territory.

You're right, Brant - and how did I find them before the Internet? I told you I was lucky! I should add that in case I gave the impression that my luck consisted of sailing from love to love in ascending happiness,not so.My romantic career was one of hopeless crushes, broken hearts, lonely Saturdays -- the usual single in the 70s story. My first love dumped me after three years. I was fallen in love with by guys I could not bear the sight of. I had one very, very "brief relationship" with someone I really liked who is now a well known academic, and I will take this opportunity to say, he was even cheaper than R. Feynman. Not even a drink offered, let alone a sandwich. Of course, he never called me again. But with the important ones in love and marriage I was lucky.

Why yes, I guess it does in the part if my life's story shaped by relationships with men as lovers, boyfriends, friends, husband. I have been consistently lucky. The men who liked me or loved me all had something of the qualities which I loved in my father, and came increasingly to know how admirable they were. There was great sadness when I lost them, of course, but in having had them, great happiness. I don't mean to pry about a third person but I am sorry she had an unhappy story. Could you explain a bit why this struck a chord with you about my post? When I re-read my prior post, it occurred to me that I may have totally misinterpreted your last sentence: "Because of him I have exaggerated expectations of men, which have never been disappointed yet." Obviously I did. I took you to mean that your "exaggerated expectations" had consistently proven ('without disappointment') to be unrealistic expectations, and that you had never met any men you could really care about. Clearly the opposite is true. How fortunate for you! The person I was speaking about has had a very different experience. Her idealized view of her father has been an obstacle for romantic relationships. I suppose both reactions to an idealized parent are fairly common. Oh, I see. I think though, while obviously I was idealizing my dad in my post, this is cumulative hindsight. Certainly in his life I loved him, but took him for granted as children do. He was just your everyday hero, a man in a hat as Adam says. It is now that I have lived longer than he got to live, and I think back, that I realize how his good qualities led me to expect that other ordinary men would have them too, and generally I found that they did. In 2011 this seems like an exaggerated expectation, and the shoe is too often on the other foot, with men being assumed untrustworthy or abusive or neglectful because bad or absent fathers were.

I guess we go barefoot and say "the reverse is true."

Why yes, I guess it does in the part if my life's story shaped by relationships with men as lovers, boyfriends, friends, husband. I have been consistently lucky. The men who liked me or loved me all had something of the qualities which I loved in my father, and came increasingly to know how admirable they were. There was great sadness when I lost them, of course, but in having had them, great happiness. I don't mean to pry about a third person but I am sorry she had an unhappy story. Could you explain a bit why this struck a chord with you about my post?

Kat and Andre have both shown poignantly one of the saddest effects of severe depression-- lost productivity. Worldwide, it must be immense and incalculable.

Thanks for this, Adam. If our dads had ever met, I think they would have really hit it off. I can imagine a conversation on the lines of "You think your kid is ornery - wait'll you hear what mine did when she was 13...etc"

Woah. And I haven't even smoked any dope today. I like the idea, sort of. I think I do. I'm going to go smoke some dope now and watch "Searching For Bobby Fischer." You don't have to be good to enjoy and play chess. I have found that the real pleasure from it is the unique experience of playing with each person. I've had awesome games playing with little kids. But how many adults truly know how to have fun, right? No Woman No Chess, but speaking of bishops - Rich, ecumenical musical friend, how do you like my Anglican compatriot's Youtube "Straight Outta Compline?" Rev Kyle is the real deal. For Rich from Carol: Straight Outta Compline Not from Russia with Love, but from Toronto with Liturgical Lust? Adam How can you not appreciate good entertainment, right? Yes, as freely admitted the blond backflipper is actually a Lutheran but not big deal - "all bapptized Christians" and all that/

You are wrong.She had enormous talent, which was acknowledged in her lifetime by musical experts such as Tony Bennett.

Woah. And I haven't even smoked any dope today. I like the idea, sort of. I think I do. I'm going to go smoke some dope now and watch "Searching For Bobby Fischer." You don't have to be good to enjoy and play chess. I have found that the real pleasure from it is the unique experience of playing with each person. I've had awesome games playing with little kids. But how many adults truly know how to have fun, right? No Woman No Chess, but speaking of bishops - Rich, ecumenical musical friend, how do you like my Anglican compatriot's Youtube "Straight Outta Compline?" Rev Kyle is the real deal. For Rich from Carol: Straight Outta Compline Not from Russia with Love, but from Toronto with Liturgical Lust? Adam Adam, I love you. Its so great remembering Compline at Camp Medley. I'm remembering our counsellors who were all Catholics one year and went to mass every night, but mass always at the boy scout camp across the river--- compline was cool, open air prayer - forget the graveyard, breathe in the air!

When I was born, my father was a little bewildered, "The first one's supposed to be a boy," he said, but my mother had expected a girl and picked out a lot of girls' names with her sister. Their mother had vetoed Heather-- "Sounds like the name of an old cow"- thanks Nanny. When I was a young child my Daddy was a strong person who read to me, the Little Golden Books over and over, and woe betide him if he missed a word. He taught me to drive. He began this with explaining the internal combustion engine and its workings in our Chevy. I actually remember some parts of this. I passed the driving test after two tries, but damaged the Chevy trying to avoid a cat on an icy street, The car ended up on the lawn of the police chief. He forgave my adolescence. I once called him a spineless jellyfish, because he deferred to my mother in matters domestic, and she never forgave me for that but he did. He even forbore to point out the redundancy of the metaphor. He enjoyed my company and missed me when I was gone. I never knew this incident until after my father had died.When I was 18, after my parents had left me at my new university in Ottawa, as they drove back home eastward, my father cried all the way from Ottawa to Montreal, my mother told me. She had never seen him cry before, nor had I. A father was only one of the things he was, but it was towering everything to me. Because of him I have exaggerated expectations of men, which have never been disappointed yet.

No argument here. I also recall an article I once read about a survey of middle-aged people (40-60) on what they perceived to be their "mental age" - it was 28. I am also too old to remember stuff, far too old, I have chosen the epochal year of 1905 as my birthdate so I can follow the strictures of my dear Ma that a lady never tells her age. In fact, we never actually knew her age until after she died at, uh, 49. 1905. Yes, that was a very good year, as old blue eyes would say. But I never would have guessed you were that old. Judging by your avatar, you don't look a day over 97. Oh, you flatterer! I swear and vow, you are worse than dear Jimmie, he said the colour of that wall is just the colour of my eyes. He wanted me to change into my second-best mourning, the purple, but I wouldn't. Standards are standards, and look who was right. They don't call it Whistlers's drawing room, do they? There are a lot of us 106 year olds out here, dead but we won't lie down! Well, there's one other anyway.

The doctor classified his impression of the depression as severe. It's debilitating strength fluctuates. Sometimes I think I'm fine, that this is all behind me. These are, in retrospect, the most dangerous times, because I suddenly crash hard and fast. These are the times when I become near suicidal (I say near because I never had an actual failed attempt). This is typical. You mentioned recently that you had been feeling better, and I'm sure it was because you had taken action, in consulting a doctor and in joining this forum (and a brave action that one!). It's an alleviation. The crash will still come, as you know, absent the correct treatment,- only you and the professionals will figure out what that is.

Michael, this guy has said he is a depressive, not an addict. Are you under the impression that he is an addict who just wants to mess with us? I don't know about addiction but I do know about depression, and what he describes rings true to me. Obviously something rings false to you.

[quote name='Dennis Hardin' timestamp='1311459323' post='139938 According to one study, our mental powers begin to decline at age 27: No argument here. I also recall an article I once read about a survey of middle-aged people (40-60) on what they perceived to be their "mental age" - it was 28. I am also too old to remember stuff, far too old, I have chosen the epochal year of 1905 as my birthdate so I can follow the strictures of my dear Ma that a lady never tells her age. In fact, we never actually knew her age until after she died at, uh, 49.