Libertarian Muslim Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 A Fatwa last year by an Eminent scholar from Pakistan forbidding terrorism and suicide bombing and designating the proponents of such like the Taliban and Al Qaeda to be Khawārij, a despised group that the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him preemptively gave authority to fight against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Muslim Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 The Fatwa can be found at http://www.minhaj.org/images-db2/fatwa-eng.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 How many bombings will this nonsense stop?Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiodekadent Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 A positive development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) A positive development.It's not a development. There's been plenty of fartwas against "terrorism" since 9/11 and this isn't Mr Qadris first fartwa. It does keep the naive happy though, I guess. Edited February 7, 2011 by Infidel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfgreaves Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I want to start by saying that I appreciate that both LM and the cleric issuing the Fatwa are trying to save innocent lives. This is good.Some here have expressed doubts as to the efficacy of such declarations; I will not add to this negativity.Instead I will positively assert that Objectivist values include the Responsibility of Independent Judgement.The very essence of a Fatwa stands in diametric opposition to this value.We each have within us all that we need, to see evil for what it is, without needing some central authority to spell it out for us;or to contradict our independent conclusions.Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike11 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Because fatwas are meant to be followed blindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Because fatwas are meant to be followed blindly.`From a story in the Economist: Modern Muslims seeking a fatwa on a practical matter need no longer go to a local mosque, or to the state-salaried officials, or muftis, used by many Sunni Muslim countries as arbiters. (Malaysia has 14 muftis; one for each state.) They can call in to a radio or television show featuring a popular preacher, or use the dial-a-fatwa phone service that one Egyptian firm offers. Half a dozen websites in English alone (like efatwa.com, muftisays.com and askimam.com) offer online advice about everything from ablution to Zionism. A downloadable service, “FatwaBase”, can be used on handheld computers.I also discovered an odd figure from the Egyptian Daily News -- the official body overseen by the Grand Mufti, the Dar Al-Ifta, "has issued 465,000 fatwas — or religious edicts — either verbally or written, via telephone or email" in 2010.This number is backed up in a brilliant story from The New Yorker, which said Dar Al-Ifta issued "five thousand fatwas a week."This doesn't, of course, take away the force of the edict contained in LM's report, just puts it in perspective. Edited February 8, 2011 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike11 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I was being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) I was being sarcastic. Fo rgive my pose of literalism. I was hoping ML LM would come out of his fear of being a faction of one. It is distressing to see him try vainly to make sense of currents in Islamic thought that he does not support, since he labours under the revert delusion that Islam Is One. Oddly, a mirror delusion to that which burdens Emir Wiig. Unlike Wiig, however, ML LM still seeks to make sense of the sprawl of mutually-contradictory murk in historic Islamic Jurisprudence. Wiig has read the four-page tract Evul Islam In Black and White, and so can pretend to know things.I hope ML LM finds his little niche or current or school. I cannot imagine what it is like to be an evangelist for a libertarian Islam that is also One. My head would explode. Edited February 8, 2011 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Muslim Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) The fatwa isn't something new, many Islamic scholars throughout history have declared people with similar views as Al Qaeda and the Taliban as being Khawarij and enemies of Islam. However, this is perhaps one of the most comprehensive fatwas on the subject with the Urdu version totaling more than 600 pages in length. There is big difference between the fatwas offered on many websites such as askimam.com and this and the comprehensiveness of the fatwa is one of those differences. As Baal's point, the fatwa can really create a huge amount of change if it's implemented. Also William, I'm not sure but you seem to be putting the letter's ML a lot, are you referring to me? If so, could you please use LM. Edited February 8, 2011 by Libertarian Muslim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The fatwa isn't something new, many Islamic scholars throughout history have declared people with similar views as Al Qaeda and the Taliban as being Khawarij and enemies of Islam. However, this is perhaps one of the most comprehensive fatwas on the subject with the Urdu version totaling more than 600 pages in length. There is big difference between the fatwas offered on many websites such as askimam.com and this and the comprehensiveness of the fatwa is one of those differences. As Baal's point, the fatwa can really create a huge amount of change if it's implemented. Also William, I'm not sure but you seem to be putting the letter's ML a lot, are you referring to me? If so, could you please use LM.It might be more comprehensive, LM, but I don't see it standing up. The Sheiks summary of it, which I have read a fair time ago now, is full of ill-defined terms and ambiguities. If the summary isn't crystal clear, then how can the 600 pages be? Regardless of that, though, nothing he's said has swayed the Mujahideen so far as I have seen. If you go and check out what they think of his argument (that is, do your own research as Michael would urge you to do) you'll find that they have not been swayed, and that they actually consider him to be acting contrary to Islam. When Muhammad says one thing, and Qadri says another, which one should you believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 As Baal's point, the fatwa can really create a huge amount of change if it's implemented. And my grandmother can be my grandfather if she had balls.Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am surprised that nobody has sought out information on Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri.From what I have read about him, he bears the title of "Sheikh ul-Islam," which is a title of Muslims who are considered to be a superior authority on Islam.His March 2010 Fatwa against terrorism made a media splash at the time, but I am not sure what its actual impact on the Muslim world has been. It would be interesting to see some facts on this.I do wish this effort all the best in spreading.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) I am surprised that nobody has sought out information on Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri.No need to be surprised, since you cannot tell who has and who has not sought out information on this man, nor can you tell when. But if you find some information on Qadri that helps make sense of the several strands of Islam discussion at OL, I hope you put out that information for others to consider.I was initially surprised that Qadri has left the Muslim world (he is Pakistani by birth) some years ago, and resides in Toronto. He has some nice things to say about Canada that warm the heart of smug northerners, yet I wonder why he does not continue his struggle for justice and rule of (Shariah) law in his home country. Pakistan is presently torn by a struggle between the last remnants of secular thought and the forces of a harsh Sunni authoritarianism. He is no longer a jurist in Pakistan, nor a parliamentarian. He seems to need the protection of the Canadian context. Why? Why is this man in the West, and not in the heartland of struggle?It seems to me he has given up on Pakistan, and chooses to live under the protection of 'the infidel.' I do very much respect that he writes what he does in his fatwa (though I reject his god-based philosophy completely), but that he has chosen to make his home in Canada says something very important that I hope our Muslim Oler understands.Why does he live in Toronto and not Lahore or Cairo or Tunis or Jeddah or Tangier or Beirut or Kabul?"Qadri, who recently spoke out in the United Kingdom against suicide bombings, left the Muslim world for Canada five years ago. "Multiculturalism has its own beauty," he said. "I say that Canadian society is the paradise of the present world."[From a year-old CBC story] Edited February 8, 2011 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 William,In that context, I meant "sought out information and posted about it."Of course I am not omnipotent, nor am I a mind-reader.Dayaamm!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Folks:The rumor I heard at the underground Mosque, Coffee and Hashish Shoppe on Canal Street in Manhattan is that Qadri received a cryptic love letter from Daunce Lyman and he needed some sexual surgery so he of course chose Canada to be near Daunce and partake of the best health care system on the planet.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Folks:The rumor I heard at the underground Mosque, Coffee and Hashish Shoppe on Canal Street in Manhattan is that Qadri received a cryptic love letter from Daunce Lyman and he needed some sexual surgery so he of course chose Canada to be near Daunce and partake of the best health care system on the planet.AdamAnother coup in my meteoric career as shill outreach officer for Tourism Canada. Only pays on commission though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Say Adam, next time you go to the Hash Hut could you hand out some fliers? I got the Shaw Festival and Niagara Wine Country -- I hear there's a Pinot Halal this year. Edited February 9, 2011 by daunce lynam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I am surprised that nobody has sought out information on Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri.How do you know that no one has sought information on him? Are you a mindreader? Personally, I've known about the man for a couple of years now. He had a big hand in implementing blasphemy laws in Pakistan. As far as I'm concerned he's a mystic with blood on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 In that context, I meant "sought out information and posted about it."Of course I am not omnipotent, nor am I a mind-reader.I am surprised that nobody has sought out information on Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri.How do you know that no one has sought information on him? Are you a mindreader? Richard,(sigh)According to the time stamps, my post above is about 10 hours before yours. So there's no excuse for that level of laziness.Nothing beats reading before mouthing off...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Ten hours before or not is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Richard,Not relevant to being able to read it?It certainly is relevant.This is getting silly.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wiig Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If it was five minutes before I could have read it, even two, so why ten hours makes a difference I don't know. It wasn't silly for you to raise it, but it's silly for me to comment on it. That's your logic, not mine. The real important thing here is Qadri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike11 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Teach me Objectivism on one foot!Dead Arab men don't fuck, dead Arab women don't get pregnant. Death is the sweetest form of Victory qua Victory. Edited February 9, 2011 by Joel Mac Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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