Matus1976 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Forced to take a 'social science' course and ending up in Sociology, for the assigned paper I decided to contrast the gender conceptions of beauty from common media sources against those portrayed in Atlas Shrugged. I'm pouring over the text again for the goodies, but looking for help from fellow Rand admirers, point out your favorite examples that convey the concepts of feminine beauty, such as Rearden seeing Dagny for the first time, etc. I particularly like the way Rand conveys beauty in the feminine context and it stands as a stark contrast to popular conventions, where women are often portrayed as shy, passive, demure, dependent, etc. Where Rand's beautiful heroines are strong, confident, capable, intelligent, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Forced to take a 'social science' course and ending up in Sociology, for the assigned paper I decided to contrast the gender conceptions of beauty from common media sources against those portrayed in Atlas Shrugged. I'm pouring over the text again for the goodies, but looking for help from fellow Rand admirers, point out your favorite examples that convey the concepts of feminine beauty, such as Rearden seeing Dagny for the first time, etc. I particularly like the way Rand conveys beauty in the feminine context and it stands as a stark contrast to popular conventions, where women are often portrayed as shy, passive, demure, dependent, etc. Where Rand's beautiful heroines are strong, confident, capable, intelligent, etc.I hope you will look at the media from the time that Atlas Shrugged was written, as well as the time which formed Rand's concepts of American feminine beauty. Strong intelligent women like Barbara Stanwyck had been on the movie screens, and America's princess was Grace Kelly.Then again, there was Mamie Eisenhower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) Roseland Rosalind Russel - His Girl FridayMae West Kate Hepburn However, one of my really early favorites on page 20 of the 35th anniversary paperback, you know the one that strengthens your eye muscles:"Her leg, sculptured by the tight sheen of the stocking, its long line running straight, over an arched instep, the tip of a foot in a high-heeled pump,had a feminine elegance that seemed out of place in the dusty train car and oddly incongruous with the rest of her. She wore a battered camel's haircoat that had been expensive, wrapped shapelessly about her slender nervous body. The coat collar was raised to the slanting brim of her hat. A sweep of brown hair fell back, almost touching the line of her shoulders, Her face was made of angular planes, the shape of her mouth clear-cut, a sensual mouth held closed with inflexible precision. She kept her hands in the coat pockets, her posture taut, as if she resented immobility, and unfeminine, as if she were unconscious of her own body and that it was a woman's body."This is a remarkable paragraph. Ayn's ability to convey Dagny's coiled tension should be perceived as erotic. Adam Edited April 11, 2011 by Selene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Roseland Russel - His Girl FridayDid she play a dime-a-dance girl in that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Roseland Russel - His Girl FridayDid she play a dime-a-dance girl in that one?ouch - proofreading would help... Russell and Cary Grant in His Girl Friday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reidy Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) As far as pop-cultural references go, Atlas Shrugged was a bit of a throwback to the movie heroines of the 30s and 40s in the age of Debbie Reynolds, Jayne Mansfield and Marilyn Monroe. In The Feminine Mystique, which is close in time to Atlas Shrugged and which got a favorable review in The Objectivist Newsletter, Friedan observed how far things had fallen in this regard.Some other first-sight scenes are Keating's first glimpse of Dominique Francon and the first sight of the Golden One in Anthem. More Taggart scenes that come to mind are at the Reardens' party, where she trades bracelets with Lillian (I especially remember "the most feminine of aspects - the look of being chained." You can't handle this topic without facing up to Rand's s/m side), her press conference announcing the JG Line, her first ride on it and her return from Woodstock to the TT boardroom. The fan letters in Ideal.Are you also looking into her treatment of men? Dominique seeing Roark in the quarry; her conversation with Kiki Holcombe when she's just recognized Roark and tries to play it cool; Kira first encounter with Leo. Galt recollecting his first sight of Rearden.And don't forget how she describes unsympathetic characters like Keating, J. Taggart and L. Rearden.People sometimes say that Rand unrealistically makes beauty correlate with character. In fact the big majority of her character descriptions rely on acquired, character revealing details.A point I've noticed is that her women can be butch (Dagny, Kira) but her men never show a vulnerable or sentimental - dare I say "feminine"? - side.Let us know how this turns out. Edited April 11, 2011 by Reidy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matus1976 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Thanks everyone for suggestions so far. I'll add mine as I transcribe them. More Taggart scenes that come to mind are at the Reardens' party, where she trades bracelets with Lillian (I especially remember "the most feminine of aspects - the look of being chained." You can't handle this topic without facing up to Rand's s/m side), That line always bothered me. I read one reviewer suggesting that it was a thought of Lillian's, and not of opinion of Rand's, since it was Lillian's reaction to Dagny entering the room that solicited that response/passage. But given Rand's on record opinions it does not seem unreasonable that it was her's. Are you also looking into her treatment of men? Just women for the purposes of this paperAnd don't forget how she describes unsympathetic characters like Keating, J. Taggart and L. Rearden.Excellent suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matus1976 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Here's some of the source material I've gotten so far...relevant but yet to be edited. Her leg, sculptured by the tight sheen of the stocking, its long line running straight, over an arched instep, the tip of a foot in a high-heeled pump, had a feminine elegance that seemed out of place in the dusty train car and oddly incongruous with the rest of her. She wore a battered camel's hair coat that had been expensive, wrapped shapelessly about her slender nervous body. The coat collar was raised to the slanting brim of her hat. A sweep of brown hair fell back, almost touching the line of her shoulders, Her face was made of angular planes, the shape of her mouth clear-cut, a sensual mouth held closed with inflexible precision. She kept her hands in the coat pockets, her posture taut, as if she resented immobility, and unfeminine, as if she were unconscious of her own body and that it was a woman's body (pg 20)t was astonishing to discover that the lines of her shoulder were fragile - and beautiful, and that the diamond band on the wrist of her naked arm gave her the most feminine of all aspects: the look of being chained.(pg 136) She stood as she always did, straight and taut, her head lifted impatiently. It was the unfeminine pose of an executive. But her naked shoulder betrayed the fragility of the body under the black dress, and the pose made her most truly a woman. The proud strength became a challenge to someone's superior strength, and the fragility a reminder that the challenge could be broken.(pg 154)Lillian Rearden was generally regarded as a beautiful woman. She had a tall, graceful body, the kind that looked well in high-waisted gowns of the Empire style, which she had made it a practice to wear. Her exquisite profile belonged to a cameo of the same period: its pure, proud lines and the lustrous, light brown waves of her hair, worn with classical cimplicity, suggested an austere, imperial beauty. But when she turned full face…the eyes were the flaw: they were vaguely pale…lifelessly empty of expression. Rearden had always wondered, since she seemed amused so often, why there was no gaiety in her face. Pg 33The girl had blurred eyes, a perspiring face, an ermine cape and a beautiful evening gown that had slipped off one shoulder like a slovenly housewife’s bathrobe, revealing too much of her breast, not in a manner of daring, but in the manner of a drudge’s indifference pg 66Betty Pope washing her teeth in the bathroom beyond. Her girdle lay on the floor…was a faded pink, with broken strands of rubber. [she] came into the living room, dragging the folds of a satin negligee harlequin-checkered in orange and purple. She looked awful in a negligee, thought Taggart; she was ever so much better in a riding habit, in the photographs on the society pages of newspapers. She was a lanky girl, all bones and loose joints that did not move smoothly. She had a homely face, a bad complexion and a look of impertinent condescension derived from the fact that she belonged to one of the very best families. …He saw her dressing in front of the open door. She took a long time twisting herself into her girdle, hooking garters to her stockings, pulling on an ungainly, expensive tweed suit. The negligee, picked from an advertisement in the smartest fashion magazine, was like a uniform which knew to be expected on certain occasions, which she had worn dutifully for a specified purpose and then discarded. Pg 70-71“He seldom spoke in Francisco’s presence. But he would corner Dagny and he would smile derisively, saying, “All those airs you put on, pretending that you’re an iron woman with a mind of her own! You’re a spineless dishrag, that’s all you are. Its disgusting, the way you let that conceited punk order you about…You haven’t any pride at all. The way you run when he whistles and wait on him! Why don’t you shine his shoes?” “Because he hasn’t told me to,” she answered” pg 94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Michael:Page 70 35th Anniversary Paperback:"Dagny listened to the Fourth Concerto, her head thrown back, her eyes closed. She lay half-stretched across the corner of the couch, her body relaxed and still; but tension stressed the shape of her mouth on her motionless face, a sensual shape, drawn in lines of longing."This is the page before the Betty Pope section you have quoted. Interesting.Page 98 bottom through to 99 is where Francisco assaults Dagny which by today's standards in NY State would be an automatic Order of Protection for a minimum of one (1) year, mandatory anger management classes/therapy, the immediate removal of any and all firearms in his or his families possession, a stay away order and possible jail time.I think you should address this issue based on the nature of the class. It should also be set off from the consensual/voluntary physical/violent sexual interludes in other parts of the book with her female characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Michael:Page 70 35th Anniversary Paperback:"Dagny listened to the Fourth Concerto, her head thrown back, her eyes closed. She lay half-stretched across the corner of the couch, her body relaxed and still; but tension stressed the shape of her mouth on her motionless face, a sensual shape, drawn in lines of longing."This is the page before the Betty Pope section you have quoted. Interesting.Page 98 bottom through to 99 is where Francisco assaults Dagny which by today's standards in NY State would be an automatic Order of Protection for a minimum of one (1) year, mandatory anger management classes/therapy, the immediate removal of any and all firearms in his or his families possession, a stay away order and possible jail time.Oh, dear. But wasn't he only 16? Then there's the page 105 problem.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matus1976 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Some other first-sight scenes are Keating's first glimpse of Dominique Francon and the first sight of the Golden One in Anthem. More Taggart scenes that come to mind are at the Reardens' party, where she trades bracelets with Lillian (I especially remember "the most feminine of aspects - the look of being chained." Looking at the full quote in context, it does seem like this is something Lillian is thinking. “Lillian moved forward to meet her, studying her with curiosity. They had met before, on infrequent occasions, and she found it strange to see Dagny Taggart wearing an evening gown. It was a black dress with a bodice that fell as a cape over one arm and shoulder, leaving the other bare; the naked shoulder was the gown’s only ornament. Seeing her in the suits she wore, one never thought of Dagny Taggart’s body. The black dress seemed excessively revealing – because it was astonishing to discover that the lines of her shoulder were fragile and beautiful, and that the diamond band on the wrist of her naked arm gave her the most feminine of all aspects: the look of being chained” pg 136 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Michael:Page 70 35th Anniversary Paperback:"Dagny listened to the Fourth Concerto, her head thrown back, her eyes closed. She lay half-stretched across the corner of the couch, her body relaxed and still; but tension stressed the shape of her mouth on her motionless face, a sensual shape, drawn in lines of longing."This is the page before the Betty Pope section you have quoted. Interesting.Page 98 bottom through to 99 is where Francisco assaults Dagny which by today's standards in NY State would be an automatic Order of Protection for a minimum of one (1) year, mandatory anger management classes/therapy, the immediate removal of any and all firearms in his or his families possession, a stay away order and possible jail time.Oh, dear. But wasn't he only 16? Then there's the page 105 problem.--BrantAhh, yes, the statutory rape part. I was going to get to that later. Unfortunately, there are a number of us that would be guilty of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matus1976 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Some other first-sight scenes are Keating's first glimpse of Dominique Francon and the first sight of the Golden One in Anthem. More Taggart scenes that come to mind are at the Reardens' party, where she trades bracelets with Lillian (I especially remember "the most feminine of aspects - the look of being chained." Looking at the full quote in context, it does seem like this is something Lillian is thinking. “Lillian moved forward to meet her, studying her with curiosity. They had met before, on infrequent occasions, and she found it strange to see Dagny Taggart wearing an evening gown. It was a black dress with a bodice that fell as a cape over one arm and shoulder, leaving the other bare; the naked shoulder was the gown’s only ornament. Seeing her in the suits she wore, one never thought of Dagny Taggart’s body. The black dress seemed excessively revealing – because it was astonishing to discover that the lines of her shoulder were fragile and beautiful, and that the diamond band on the wrist of her naked arm gave her the most feminine of all aspects: the look of being chained” pg 136Contrasting this with Francisco's description of Dagny a few pages later at the same party, it seems even more evident that the 'chained' comment was Lillian's thought“You’re the only woman worth watching here” She stood defiantly still, because the way he looked at her demanded an angry escape. She stood as she always did, straight and taught, her head lifted impatiently. It was the unfeminine pose of an executive. But her naked shoulder betrayed the fragility of the body under the black dress and the pose made her most truly a woman. The proud strength became a challenge to someone’s superior strength, and the fragility a reminder that the challenge could be broken. She was not conscious of it. She had met no one able to see it. Pg 154 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiodekadent Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Rand often gets criticized for being traditionalist on gender roles. This is true to some extent but its a simplification.Note that Dagny is kind of androgynous in many respects. Personality-wise, her characters (of both genders) aren't particularly hyper-gendered EXCEPT during the sex scenes. If we're looking specifically at Atlas, it would also be important to note that Lillian Rearden is much more 'feminine' than Dagny both in personality and appearance. Lillian assumes Dagny is asexual ("an adding machine in tailored suits"). Looking at Rand's gender politics would require something MUCH deeper than the usual stuff that Rand-hating feminists seem to like spouting. You might want to look at "Feminist Interpretations of Ayn Rand" for some good material from more Rand-sympathetic feminists (mostly; there's some critical work). I know you're only looking at femininity and women, but its important to provide some sort of broad outline of Rand's understanding of masculinity; the contrast between the two illuminates very important aspects about both of them. For instance, Rand believes the proper man and the proper woman should both be very rational, levelheaded and intelligent. This goes against both the traditional "hysterical woman" viewpoint about femininity, but it also defies the brutish jock-culture/warrior-macho concept of masculinity as well. Her men have desk jobs, after all. Its Dagny who shoots the guard, not one of the men (so much for 'a real man is a killer'). So yeah, you will have to provide an outline of Randian masculinity as well as femininity. Its important to give full context after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Michael:I like Andrew's approach. I know that when I was teaching college, I taught both required and elective courses. Since I was very young and had never had my teaching ability crippled by "education courses," I expected my students to be as creative as they could possibly be.Additionally, I believe that you can do some really innovative work in terms of Ayn's projections of sexual roles in her novels.The book he suggests is a good source of information.Feminist Interpretations of Ayn Rand Table of ContentsReason Review of the BookI wonder how Ayn would have portrayed a submissive male sexually in a novel?Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The Female Hero: A RANDIAN-FEMINIST SYNTHESIS "A discussion of the nature of sex in Atlas Shrugged, aimed at explaining the integration of mind and body, love and sex, evaluation and desire, and often repeated in Rand's non-fiction (Rand [1961] 1968; Binswanger 1986), also carries with it strong gender-role implications: A man's sexual choice is the result and the sum of his fundamental convictions. Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive, and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life. Show me the woman he sleeps with, and I will tell you his valuation of himself. ... He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience - or to fake - a sense of self-esteem. The man who is proudly certain of his own value, will want the highest type of woman he can find, the woman he admires, the strongest, the hardest to conquer - because only the possession of a heroine will give him the sense of an achievement, not the possession of a brainless slut. (Rand 1957, 489-490)Just as Rand's heroines are slender/fragile and feminine, her female villains are often athletic or large, and unfeminine or masculine, such as Eve Layton in The Fountainhead<6>, or Comrade Sonia in We the Living.<7> There seems to be a pattern in which heroes are masculine, heroines are feminine, female villains are unfeminine or masculine, and male villains are unmasculine or feminine. Rand seems to engage in the "gendering" of evil, in that characters whose gender identities and/or gender expressions are considered inappropriate to their biological sex, are portrayed as evil. This tendency is apparent in Rand's fiction and non-fiction."Now this essay, part of the book mentioned by Andrew, was written by a male and it dates back to 1999.However, it did address the androgyny issue:"A problem in the historical and etymological connection between femininity and women and masculinity and men, is that, in a Randian context, it may encourage the unwarranted and harmful conclusion that only men are worthy of hero-worship, and only women are to be granted the privilege of hero-worshiping. Ideally, in the long run, we should abandon the terms "masculinity" and "femininity" altogether, as remnants of a collectivist past. Gender liberation or gender individualism encourages individuals to take pride in and develop their own unique gender identities. Perhaps most or all concepts of androgyny will make themselves superfluous through the creation of a "postandrogynous", or individualist, society."Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matus1976 Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 I found this interesting article on the topic, which I've only skimmed so farhttp://heim.ifi.uio.no/~thomas/po/female-hero.htmlIt points out Rand's unique view of gender but also some contradictions which present themselves through her writings on femininity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I found this interesting article on the topic, which I've only skimmed so farhttp://heim.ifi.uio....emale-hero.htmlIt points out Rand's unique view of gender but also some contradictions which present themselves through her writings on femininity.lol beat you by four (4) minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiodekadent Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I wonder how Ayn would have portrayed a submissive male sexually in a novel?[sPECULATING]A villain. Possibly similar to James Taggart. I admit the dom-sub element in Rand's sex scenes is not my thing. Rand's philosophy, if you remove her own fetishes for bodice-ripper-sex, seems to imply that sex ideally should be about admiration rather than conquest. Worthiness and strength and heroism should be cultivated and encouraged and admired in oneself and one's partner. Strength should desire its equal, not as something to overcome or be overcame by, but as a mirror. Spinoza said that rationally, if you love the good in yourself you should love it in others. I agree there.Rand unfortunately didn't fully reject the idea of sex as an animalistic act of conquest and pecking-order-establishment (which unfortunately was necessitated by her gender essentialism and her own need to feel feminine), but she wanted to preserve dignity and worthiness for the participants, hence the 'noble predator and worthy prey' Red Sonja complex she developed.On the bright side, that viewpoint does have a bit more nobility and worth than the "sex is a complete animal act by which humans establish a dominance heirarchy amongst themselves, humans are no different to wolves" viewpoint that I seem to find reflected in a hell of a lot of D/s stuff. But its still suboptimal in my judgment. If anyone is offended by the above they are free to PM me and discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Here's a motivation thing to think about.There's an old saying (attributed to the Sufis, but it is in many cultures) that you become what you gaze upon. That's basically true. Since I first heard that, I've tested it and kept my eye out for observing it in others (and confirmed it over and over). I've even come across the mirror neuron thing in modern neuroscience that partially explains this. Coming from that angle, I believe Rand's values for human beauty were highly influenced by the leading men and women from the early days of Hollywood. As a youngster, she devoured whatever she could get from there. She migrated there. She worked her way up there. Hollywood film making was her early passion in life.Now take a look at Frank O'Connor and Nathaniel Branden and look at early leading Hollywood men. Same ballpark. Rand also decked out in 20's flapper-ware until later in life, especially her harido and the long cigarette holder.Barbara once confirmed to me that Francisco D'Anconia was modeled after Zorro.I don't think you can make exact comparisons like that too often, but I do see a lot of general characteristics between early film aesthetics for human beauty and Rand's. In fact, I believe it is the main reason all her heroes and heroines are white. Critics like to hint at hidden racism with that, but I think it was unconscious absorption of Hollywood glamor of the times. There simply were no glamorous folks other than white folks in the movies back then.(I speculate, I know, but I gave my reasons and I will hold to this until proven otherwise.) Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reidy Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (And Zorro in turn was modeled on the Scarlet Pimpernel.)Peikoff suggests that Vesta Dunning was by way of Katherine Hepburn, and Rand herself has been quoted as saying that Hepburn in the 30s would have made a good Dagny. I think she patterned Dominique physically on Garbo, who was unmistakably her source for Kay Gonda and probably for Kay Ludlow. Her first published writing was some pamphlets about the American movie industry published in the USSR. In one of them, which she wrote when she wasn't more than twenty, she observed quite correctly that physical beauty correlates only spottily with star quality; you need more to catch and keep the viewers' interest. Her example then was Gloria Swanson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiodekadent Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Here's a motivation thing to think about.There's an old saying (attributed to the Sufis, but it is in many cultures) that you become what you gaze upon. That's basically true. Since I first heard that, I've tested it and kept my eye out for observing it in others (and confirmed it over and over). I've even come across the mirror neuron thing in modern neuroscience that partially explains this. I like that saying. I prefer to put it into O'ist terms; people craft themselves into the image of their values (insofar as much as they can). But its a very good saying.Coming from that angle, I believe Rand's values for human beauty were highly influenced by the leading men and women from the early days of Hollywood. As a youngster, she devoured whatever she could get from there. She migrated there. She worked her way up there. Hollywood film making was her early passion in life.Now take a look at Frank O'Connor and Nathaniel Branden and look at early leading Hollywood men. Same ballpark. Rand also decked out in 20's flapper-ware until later in life, especially her harido and the long cigarette holder.Barbara once confirmed to me that Francisco D'Anconia was modeled after Zorro.I don't think you can make exact comparisons like that too often, but I do see a lot of general characteristics between early film aesthetics for human beauty and Rand's. In fact, I believe it is the main reason all her heroes and heroines are white. Critics like to hint at hidden racism with that, but I think it was unconscious absorption of Hollywood glamor of the times. There simply were no glamorous folks other than white folks in the movies back then.(I speculate, I know, but I gave my reasons and I will hold to this until proven otherwise.) MichaelMichael,I agree with you entirely. Rand's work is identified with Art Deco and (to some extent) Film Noir style aesthetics for a reason. The Golden Age of Hollywood was basically the aesthetic source for the only concept of joy she knew as she was growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matus1976 Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 My original intention was to compare Rand's characterization of feminine beauty against the 'norms' of western society's concept of feminine beauty, which are usually considered to be shy, passive, demure, submissive, along with a slender delicate body and highlighted female body features. I thought for source material to use the movies which depict an unattractive woman being turned into an attractive one and told how to dress, act, etc, in order to be beautiful. For these I picked out She's All That, Miss Congeniality, and The Princess Diaries. Surprisingly I found Rand's depiction of beauty to be very similar to those, I was confused until I realized all three of these films focused on 'royal' feminine beauty, and not typical feminine beauty. One was being groomed to be a prom queen, one Miss United States, and one a literal princess, often they were directed to 'hold their heads high' and 'walk with purpose and elegance' quite different that the shy passive submissive femininity usually considered beautiful. The only thing that stood in stark contrast was the irrelevance of dress and makeup to Rand's conception of beauty, so the temporary conclusion I've drawn is that Rand's conception of feminine beauty is almost identical to the 'royal' idea of feminine beauty. Interesting. Also all three movies depicted the subjects as clumsy, unruly, unorganized, etc, even after they had been transformed into what would have been considered beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiodekadent Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 My original intention was to compare Rand's characterization of feminine beauty against the 'norms' of western society's concept of feminine beauty, which are usually considered to be shy, passive, demure, submissive, along with a slender delicate body and highlighted female body features. I thought for source material to use the movies which depict an unattractive woman being turned into an attractive one and told how to dress, act, etc, in order to be beautiful. For these I picked out She's All That, Miss Congeniality, and The Princess Diaries. Surprisingly I found Rand's depiction of beauty to be very similar to those, I was confused until I realized all three of these films focused on 'royal' feminine beauty, and not typical feminine beauty. One was being groomed to be a prom queen, one Miss United States, and one a literal princess, often they were directed to 'hold their heads high' and 'walk with purpose and elegance' quite different that the shy passive submissive femininity usually considered beautiful. The only thing that stood in stark contrast was the irrelevance of dress and makeup to Rand's conception of beauty, so the temporary conclusion I've drawn is that Rand's conception of feminine beauty is almost identical to the 'royal' idea of feminine beauty. Interesting. Also all three movies depicted the subjects as clumsy, unruly, unorganized, etc, even after they had been transformed into what would have been considered beauty.You make an interesting point about "royal" femininity. One thing I might suggest looking at especially is Miss Congeniality. Think about it; "Miss United States" i.e. a woman that is meant to embody "American-ness." This has many similarities to Rand's characterizations in her novels; like Dostoyevsky, Rand's characters are reifications of ideals. We could go so far as to say that beauty pageants, to a degree, resemble romantic realism (again, to a very limited extent).I still stand by my earlier point that a brief analysis of Rand's overall depictions of men and maleness is useful. Both masculinity and femininity need to be understood partially in terms of their relationship to each other, simply for full context. It doesn't have to be a very long part of the essay. Plus, short little digressions on related-but-different DO make your paper longer and more 'deep' (speaking here as someone that has used this trick to pad out a Master's Thesis, I can promise you it works). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 For these I picked out She's All That, Miss Congeniality, and The Princess Diaries. Surprisingly I found Rand's depiction of beauty to be very similar to those, I was confused until I realized all three of these films focused on 'royal' feminine beauty, and not typical feminine beauty. One was being groomed to be a prom queen, one Miss United States, and one a literal princess, often they were directed to 'hold their heads high' and 'walk with purpose and elegance' quite different that the shy passive submissive femininity usually considered beautiful. Also all three movies depicted the subjects as clumsy, unruly, unorganized, etc, even after they had been transformed into what would have been considered beauty.My Fair Lady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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