Khadafi dead or captured

[BaalChatzaf]

So reported to Reuters by the "national committee" the gang of thugs currently running Libya.

If so, good riddance to putrid rubbish.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Bob Grant, a talk radio icon has always ended every show with the statement:

Get Ghaddafi!

Bob Grant was interviewed this morning and he talked about a Jewish friend of his that was a senior administrator in the NY City Comptroller's Office under Abe Beame who told Bob that he was attending a funeral of a man he hated. Grant asked him why attend the funeral of an evil man that he hated?

The answer was to make sure he was dead.

Apparently, our boy, one of our rendition pals is dead:

Moustaf said Gaddafi had been shot in the head and close to the heart on the outskirts of the western roundabout of Sirte, where he was hiding in a hole surrounded by bodyguards.

http://www.globalpos...s-final-moments <<<<somewhat graphic...

Now, will the Reverent Farrakhan mourn and weep for his death and call O'bama a murderer again?

Adam

whistling a happy tune for the elimination of another thug from the planet. Problem is what will replace him in a key country on the planet.

Seems like we are never rid of the thuggish Barbary Pirate elements. From Jefferson to O'bama, geez talk about the dumbing down of the American presidency!

[anthony]

Do you think anybody will make a fuss about his burial?

(Splash.)

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Now I can relax a bit.

I was for taking this monster out, but I believe the way they went about it has resulted in a lot of unnecessary deaths. At least now that should dwindle.

Here is one case where a good old assassination plot would have worked wonders.

Now there is another worry. I hope this thing does not end up like the old opera joke, where the out-of-tune tenor, after being booed and dodging tomatoes, says, "OK, I'm going. But good luck with the fat lady waiting for you in the wings."

Michael

[sbeaulieu]

I'm glad it was his own countrymen taking out the trash. What they make of the aftermath will hopefully be for the good.

~ Shane

[sjw]

I'm glad it was his own countrymen taking out the trash. What they make of the aftermath will hopefully be for the good.

~ Shane

I see no reason to conclude that it's not the trash taking out the trash, with one thug being replaced for another. They unnecessarily tortured and killed him. A civilized group would have brought him to trial. Of course, America is going down this barbarous route as well. Political unrest, combined with no concern for due process and the rule of law, is a bad combination. Of course, I'm sure Khadafi had a lot to do with why his countrymen behaved this way, which may be justice for him, but it's still not good for society to be run by one kind of animal vs. another.

Shayne

[Selene]

But Libya is in Africa, isn't it?

[sbeaulieu]

Shayne,

I don't think it will be one thug replacing another. I think the Libyans have seen to that. I don't think he was tortured, either. He sustained heavy injuries prior to capture. Being in bad shape, they probably roughed him up and that might have finished him off, or his injuries got the best of him. I didn't care for how they treated his body afterward. But given the conditions these people faced, most were probably driven by emotion and not reason. Like you, I hope it's not a cadre of like-minded thugs that pave Libya's future. They've endured enough.

~ Shane

[Selene]

Shayne,

I don't think it will be one thug replacing another. I think the Libyans have seen to that. I don't think he was tortured, either. He sustained heavy injuries prior to capture. Being in bad shape, they probably roughed him up and that might have finished him off, or his injuries got the best of him. I didn't care for how they treated his body afterward. But given the conditions these people faced, most were probably driven by emotion and not reason. Like you, I hope it's not a cadre of like-minded thugs that pave Libya's future. They've endured enough.

~ Shane

Shane:

This is a section from today's e-mail from a strategic analytical group I belong to:

Though the Benghazi-based NTC has been widely recognized in the international community as the sole legitimate representative of the Libyan people, this has long since ceased to be the case in the eyes of many Libyans.

The NTC is one of several political forces in the country. Since the rebel forces entered Tripoli on Aug. 21,

there has been a steady increase of armed groups hailing from places such as Misurata, Zentan, Tripoli and even eastern Libya

itself that have questioned the authority of leading NTC members.

These groups have been occupying different parts of the capital for two months now, despite calls by the NTC (and some of the groups themselves) to vacate. They also have been participating in the sieges of cities in which pro-Gadhafi remnants continued to hold out after the fall of Tripoli.

Throughout this period, the NTC has repeatedly delayed the formation of a transitional government, in recent weeks citing the ongoing fight against Gadhafi as the reason. NTC leaders said that once the war was finally over, the official “liberation” of Libya would be declared and a transitional government would be formed. The fall of Sirte means this moment is at hand.

Libya, as I understand it is severely divided by tribal groups. I am concerned that it may become Balkanized. You also have Islamists, secularists, Arabs and Berbers in the mix.

Adam

[sbeaulieu]

Let's hope it's not a power in numbers game. Melting pots are never good. Quaddafi's demise sets an example for the next governing body to walk on eggshells.

~ Shane

[9thdoctor]

Ugh, it's all over the news that an American drone (and a French fighter) were involved. Those in favor of interventionism and foreign adventures are going to be claiming victory, meanwhile the worst Islamic elements are going to make out Quaddafi as a martyr to US imperialism. It's bad, all bad. And these nasty photos have been released. I mean, fine, some people complained about not seeing Osama's corpse, but this has already turned into overkill.

[sbeaulieu]

Just read that, too, ND. Definitely not good. I have to retract part of my earlier comment about taking out trash. It seems we started the downward spiral on this. It'll be a great day when the US isn't contstantly pulling the trigger...

~ Shane

[syrakusos]

Welcome to the new world order.

These professors of economics and sociology run a reasonable blog. This post

http://orgtheory.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/the-network-that-runs-the-world/

might be relevant here.

Do you imagine that these are spontaneous uprisings?

[Selene]

Welcome to the new world order.

These professors of economics and sociology run a reasonable blog. This post

http://orgtheory.wor...runs-the-world/

might be relevant here.

Do you imagine that these are spontaneous uprisings?

Very nice Michael...

So where is Taggart Transcontinental and Rearden Steel?

[william.scherk]

Do you imagine that these are spontaneous uprisings?

Michael, I want to check your meaning here -- when you say 'these uprisings,' are you speaking of all of these, or just several: Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, Syria?

The second meaning I want to check is 'spontaneous.' What would be the hallmarks of a truly spontaneous uprising? I mean, can you point to an uprising (or rebellion, or revolution) that was indeed spontaneous in the fullest sense of the word, a revolution that was mostly, largely, on balance, unplanned and undirected? Or, put another way, is there such a thing as a spontaneous uprising? Is there a comparison you mean to make?

But to answer your question, I do indeed consider the Libyan uprising against Gaddafi as spontaneus -- but only if I had a forced choice between spontaneous and its assumed or unmentioned antonyms. So I would consider the Velvet Revolution to be spontaneous, as I would the Riel Rebellion, and perhaps even the American Revolution -- but again, only if I was forced to choose between spontaneous and its antonyms.

(the provocative article in New Scientist noted at the link Michael provided: Revealed, the Capitalist Network that Runs the World. See also the excellent skeptical article and following commentary at the Physics ArXiv blog)

Edited October 22, 2011 by william.scherk

[anthony]

Libya, as I understand it is severely divided by tribal groups. I am concerned that it may become Balkanized. You also have Islamists, secularists, Arabs and Berbers in the mix. Adam

Adam,

Tribalism does not seem to die in Africa - it eventually resurfaces to become "the last refuge of a scoundrel".

It's not my purpose to condemn those who created the problem, the colonists, that has been done often, and sometimes unfairly.

But it was they, as you know, who made the borders - with maps and theodolites - slicing territory in the name of King and Country, arbitrarily including and excluding various nomadic or settled tribes.

The early colonists are always going to get the blame for empire building and resource-grabbing - but what else could have happened? Africa was a vacuum, Europeans perceived, and the power of knowledge will and should triumph over ignorance.

Except, in their haste and superiority, the colonists enforced their values without inclusionism, and in that lies the injustice on their part.

So years later, progressive Europe attempts to assuage its guilt by fostering 'Democracy' on Africa - a concept only half-understood, barely wanted ( except for the respectability and IMF wealth it confers), and without a rock-solid Constitution, rule of law, and individual rights, not worth a fig.

The minority tribes and groups will lose out within this majority rule - in Libya as elsewhere. Ultimately, it's the individual who will suffer, and the new elite who emerge from these victorious mobs who will get fat. But the West will have done its duty, and can righteously ignore the results and can move on to other good deeds.

Tony

[sjw]

Interesting Tony, your analysis of the problems in Africa resonates with my conclusions in Chapter 3 of my book. Specifically, the problems of the world's governments most deeply result from megalomaniacs who think they can dictate for everyone in a given massive swath of land what rules they will follow, as opposed to reasonable human beings building localities with rules, and leaving the rest of the Earth as it was, and only enforcing natural rights on wild lands.

Calling this "empire building" is whitewashes the actual evil: theft of the most precious natural resource, wild land (as opposed to a Lockean-style acquisition of it). Once the whole Earth was stolen, it created a "prison planet", where you are stuck on someone else's unjustly acquired property and thereby coerced into obeying his rules.

If one doubts the megalomania, one can observe that international treaties specify that wherever you go in the Universe, the same megalomania applies. There is no escape, not on Earth, not in the farthest reaches of the Universe, where these insane governments have reach.

Shayne