9thdoctor Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I just had to spend a bit too much time looking up one of the many examples of Phil’s bad behavior. The search function only goes back so far (a year, it seems), making more time consuming methods necessary to answer his accusations and demonstrate his hypocrisy, a too common task. So, my idea here is to have a thread with brief summaries (or quotes) and links to the worst of his posts, and to the best of the replies. Yes, I have concluded that Phil is this bad of a blight on the OL landscape.First, here’s what I immediately called the “Galt’s speech of Phil takedowns”, courtesy of MSK. This includes the “Oyster Living” parody and identifies the Phil pattern with great clarity and insight. Newcomers to the ways of his unique personality would do well to start here.http://www.objectivi...ndpost&p=146130I suggest reading further on in that thread to witness Phil take on GHS, climaxing with the charge that someone was playing “Rope a Dope”. The phrase was one of the inspirations for this graphic:The creepy masochism I perceive in his behavior was one of the other points I felt it would illustrate. Just look at that grin.Well alright, this is enough for a start. I’m looking to build a resource here, and the goal is simply time-saving for those of us who are Phil’s constant targets. Not to reform Phil, as that is an impossibility. And not to drive Phil off, for he comes and goes as he pleases; he trashes the forum, swearing never to return, and a few month’s later it’s: guess who’s back! BOTTOM LINE:I will never post on your site again. I would prefer not to have anything further to do with you or to communicate with you again. Quite frankly, your weakness and double standards disgust me.Shameless.Coming soon: convenient links to Phil calling me a “complete scumbag” and “Nihilist Dipshit”, and of course the classic “Phil goes cunting” exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I just had to spend a bit too much time looking up one of the many examples of Phil’s bad behavior. The search function only goes back so far (a year, it seems), making more time consuming methods necessary to answer his accusations and demonstrate his hypocrisy, a too common task. So, my idea here is to have a thread with brief summaries (or quotes) and links to the worst of his posts, and to the best of the replies. Yes, I have concluded that Phil is this bad of a blight on the OL landscape.First, here’s what I immediately called the “Galt’s speech of Phil takedowns”, courtesy of MSK. This includes the “Oyster Living” parody and identifies the Phil pattern with great clarity and insight. Newcomers to the ways of his unique personality would do well to start here.http://www.objectivi...ndpost&p=146130I suggest reading further on in that thread to witness Phil take on GHS, climaxing with the charge that someone was playing “Rope a Dope”. The phrase was one of the inspirations for this graphic:The creepy masochism I perceive in his behavior was one of the other points I felt it would illustrate. Just look at that grin.Well alright, this is enough for a start. I’m looking to build a resource here, and the goal is simply time-saving for those of us who are Phil’s constant targets. Not to reform Phil, as that is an impossibility. And not to drive Phil off, for he comes and goes as he pleases; he trashes the forum, swearing never to return, and a few month’s later it’s: guess who’s back! BOTTOM LINE:I will never post on your site again. I would prefer not to have anything further to do with you or to communicate with you again. Quite frankly, your weakness and double standards disgust me.Shameless.Coming soon: convenient links to Phil calling me a “complete scumbag” and “Nihilist Dipshit”, and of course the classic “Phil goes cunting” exchange.Ninth, you are the irresistible force trying to move the immovable object.You will never agree to be the mountain and Phil will never agree to be Mohammed.You are the Florida East and he is the Florida Wherever and never the twain....Need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Ninth, you are the irresistible force trying to move the immovable object.You will never agree to be the mountain and Phil will never agree to be Mohammed.You are the Florida East and he is the Florida Wherever and never the twain....Huh? I said I wasn't trying to change Phil, but rather, I'm putting together an easy reference source so people don't have to go hunting through old threads.Here's "complete scumbag", followed by Phil's takedown of Umberto Eco. In spite of having six novels translated into French, he and his translators are in urgent need of French language lessons from Phil, and I'm sure they appreciate the help.http://www.objectivi...ndpost&p=145928http://www.objectivi...ndpost&p=146831 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Ninth, you are the irresistible force trying to move the immovable object.You will never agree to be the mountain and Phil will never agree to be Mohammed.You are the Florida East and he is the Florida Wherever and never the twain....Huh? I said I wasn't trying to change Phil, but rather, I'm putting together an easy reference source so people don't have to go hunting through old threads.Here's "complete scumbag", followed by Phil's takedown of Umberto Eco. In spite of having six novels translated into French, he and his translators are in urgent need of French language lessons from Phil, and I'm sure they appreciate the help.http://www.objectivi...ndpost&p=145928http://www.objectivi...ndpost&p=146831Oh, Ok. Pax. You are not trying to move the immovable and Phil is not trying to convince the unconvinceable. You are just the both of you sometimes a little bit...trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I don't think Phil will mind this thread. I don't like it myself.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 I don't think Phil will mind this thread. I don't like it myself.--BrantThat’s fine. The idea is to have a separate chronicle, and assuming Phil stands by his writing I don’t see what he would have to complain about. One other motivation is the fact that my interactions with him have deteriorated over the years, for a long time I indulged and remained polite in the face of his schoolmarming. Now, if a newbie came along and innocently asked why I cut him no slack, I would have a hard time demonstrating how things got to this point.BTW, let’s not carry arguments from other threads over here. I think it’ll work better if it’s not a discussion thread, but strictly a chronicle. Just links and quotes, with brief explanations or keywords when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 [...] my interactions with [Phil] have deteriorated over the years, for a long time I indulged and remained polite in the face of his schoolmarming. Now, if a newbie came along and innocently asked why I cut him no slack, I would have a hard time demonstrating how things got to this point.Phil's ability to irritate started well before you began posting on this board. He made his first appearance by barging into a thread where some of us were having a good time and proceeding to complain. The pattern has been repeated time and again since. It's like, really, neither humans in general nor the posters here are in need of Phil's instruction on how to behave, though he seems to think that we, collectively and individually, can't survive without it.Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 [...] my interactions with [Phil] have deteriorated over the years, for a long time I indulged and remained polite in the face of his schoolmarming. Now, if a newbie came along and innocently asked why I cut him no slack, I would have a hard time demonstrating how things got to this point.Phil's ability to irritate started well before you began posting on this board. He made his first appearance by barging into a thread where some of us were having a good time and proceeding to complain. The pattern has been repeated time and again since. It's like, really, neither humans in general nor the posters here are in need of Phil's instruction on how to behave, though he seems to think that we, collectively and individually, can't survive without it.EllenMaybe he's trying to de-banish himself with what got him (self) banished--that is, he's giving us all the finger.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 > He made his first appearance by barging into a thread where some of us were having a good time and proceeding to complain. [ES]"Proceeding to -complain-" . . . . oh my god, really? And "barging in" on an open forum discussion and debate list where people challenge each other, of all places??THE HORROR. THE HORROR. THE HORROR!!!(scandalous - why didn't he just take a dump right in the middle of the floor?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I wish I were important enough to justify my own thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 > He made his first appearance by barging into a thread where some of us were having a good time and proceeding to complain. [ES]"Proceeding to -complain-" . . . . oh my god, really? And "barging in" on an open forum discussion and debate list where people challenge each other, of all places??If only she could easily provide a link so people could judge. Absent evidence, I’m inclined to credit her characterization, based on experience.Speaking of, here’s “Peikoff Flip-Flops”, a classic case of Phil’s thread derailment methods at work.http://www.objectivi...indpost&p=99070And I remain an unrepentant “smuggler” of evaluations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I wish I were important enough to justify my own thread...Done!Invoice is in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) ['quoating' Ellen Stuttle] He made his first appearance by barging into a thread where some of us were having a good time and proceeding to complain."Proceeding to -complain-" . . . . oh my god, really? And "barging in" on an open forum discussion and debate list where people challenge each other, of all places??If only she could easily provide a link so people could judge. Absent evidence, I’m inclined to credit her characterization, based on experience.I believe Phil's first Objectivist Living post was on 28 December 2005, in a thread that discussed (among other things) the psychological reality of Rand's characters in both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead: "Ancient" post on Rand's Characters.I do not remember reading the thread at the time, but it is very interesting from my point of view, fasacinated as I am by matters psychological. The first post by Ellen was a posting of an 'ancient' thread (actually from August 2004) to 'Salon Total Freedom list.' In that initial posting, Ellen noted that one of the interlocutors was Nathaniel Branden. Subsequent to that post, a marvelous discussion ensued, including comments from Barbara Branden.Now, we may disagree (along with Phil) about the "barging" description, and we may even disagree with Ellen's 'complain.' We could agree that a discussion can be subtly derailed from the originating posters intent. We could agree further that an open forum cannot be barged into. We could even thrill to the idea that Phil had important, cogent objections to the topic's flow, focus, value, perceptiveness and so on. But I will simply use the Coates technique of snipping and excerpting to give the flavour of his first remarks on OL. Following his lead, I will not this time give a post number or otherwise give a reference to the post in question. To use the words of Phil himself: Hope you don't mind, but I find it difficult to respond to an entire long post, so I prefer to snip/condense the parts I want to comment on rather than use the quote or reply function>>>>>I was very interested in the original purpose of>>>>>this thread ... veered off subject or gotten>>>>>hijacked ... by the time I am ready to post,>>>>>people are immersed in conversations on new>>>>>subjects ... posters ... get long-winded or post>>>>>many times in a row ... hosts and members on>>>>>thist site like to have that sort of threads and>>>>>those sorts of discussions ... Doesn't work for>>>>>me, though, so I think I'll go back to the>>>>>several other websites I look at. ... extremely->>>>>long-winded or post-every-half-hour or post-on->>>>>every-topic people ... I don't enjoy hearing the>>>>>same people on every topic[edited for spelking errors] Edited December 14, 2011 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 [edited for spelking errors]Don't worry about it, everyone makes some errors at first. Spelking is easier than Kipling once you get the hang of it.Candy is dandy and liquor is quickerbut barging is funner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 > I find it difficult to respond to an entire long post, so I prefer to snip/condense the parts I want to comment on rather than use the quote or reply function. . . Oh the Horror! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George H. Smith Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 > I find it difficult to respond to an entire long post, so I prefer to snip/condense the parts I want to comment on rather than use the quote or reply function . . . Oh the Horror!You can easily quote fragments or sections of a post using the quote function as well. Simply delete the parts you don't want to quote. Or, alternatively, you can quote a section and reply to it, then quote another section and reply to it, etc. The multiple quotes require the ability to insert two simple tags in brackets, but I'm sure someone with your extensive knowledge of science can handle it. (I copy the original attribution at the top of the quotation and then paste it for each additional segment that I quote. All that is then needed is to insert a close quote tag at the end of each quoted section. This method has the advantage of giving the source for each quoted segment.)So much for that excuse....Ghs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George H. Smith Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 No thread devoted to Phil would be complete without this video -- a kind of anti-tribute to Phil -- that I made last April. I posted this once before, but some of you may have missed it. Ghs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 George:Using the formal Roberts Rules of Order and keeping with the formal civility required here, I raise a Point of Information...isn't it true that Mr. Coates was formally educated in computer language and programing?AdamFaithfully Submmitted for Consideration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George H. Smith Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 George: Using the formal Roberts Rules of Order and keeping with the formal civility required here, I raise a Point of Information... isn't it true that Mr. Coates was formally educated in computer language and programing? Adam Faithfully Submmitted for ConsiderationI could be wrong, but when I first met Phil in 1995, I think he was working with computers, possibly as a programmer. My theory, for what it is worth, is that Phil simply doesn't want to give in on the issue of using the quote function. It has become a badge of independence -- a very peculiar one, admittedly, but a badge nonetheless. I say this because Phil won't even give the quote function a trial run. There is no good reason to refuse even to try it out unless using the quote function, for Phil, involves a lot more than using the quote function.Ghs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George H. Smith Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Excellent job, Phil. Now if you can just make all your future posts as cogent as your last two posts, you will have no more problems on OL.Ghs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Coates Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 ******** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 To use the words of Phil himself: Hope you don't mind, but I find it difficult to respond to an entire long post, so I prefer to snip/condense the parts I want to comment on rather than use the quote or reply function>>>>>I was very interested in the original purpose of>>>>>this thread ... veered off subject or gotten>>>>>hijacked ... by the time I am ready to post,>>>>>people are immersed in conversations on new>>>>>subjects ... posters ... get long-winded or post>>>>>many times in a row ... hosts and members on>>>>>thist site like to have that sort of threads and>>>>>those sorts of discussions ... Doesn't work for>>>>>me, though, so I think I'll go back to the>>>>>several other websites I look at. ... extremely->>>>>long-winded or post-every-half-hour or post-on->>>>>every-topic people ... I don't enjoy hearing the>>>>>same people on every topic[edited for spelking errors]I’m disappointed to see that there has been no growth in Phil qua writer in all these years. Now I think he just works from boilerplate, using a bit of cut and paste off an old Wordstar file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Contrary to what Phil often says, I think that he isn't so much interested in "spreading Objectivism" as in trying to control others who are doing so, and in trying to impede people if they think for themselves and offer dissenting opinions -- especially when he has no answers to their arguments. I think he's so resentful of the fact that his cherished beliefs are allowed to be openly and effectively challenged here that his goal has become to disrupt OL with distractions as much as possible.For any newbies who are interested, now or in the future, the Flame War Rant thread contains my encounter with Phil at his most hateful and irrational.J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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