Chick-Fillet Employee Hated By Alleged College Professor At Drive Through...I Am Just Stunned By Petty Assholes...

[Selene]

And we are the haters?

What must this gentleman's sense of life be?

Adam

[Selene]

There really is a God and it is certainly not me...

Last night we posted video of a liberal bullying a Chick-fil-A employee in drive thru. Adam Smith is his name and as it turns out he was the CFO of Vante, Inc. Again… was.

The following is a statement from Vante:

Vante regrets the unfortunate events that transpired yesterday in Tucson between our former CFO/Treasurer Adam Smith and an employee at Chick-fil-A. Effective immediately, Mr. Smith is no longer an employee of our company.

The actions of Mr. Smith do not reflect our corporate values in any manner. Vante is an equal opportunity company with a diverse workforce, which holds diverse opinions. We respect the right of our employees and all Americans to hold and express their personal opinions, however, we also expect our company officers to behave in a manner commensurate with their position and in a respectful fashion that conveys these values of civility with others.

We hope that the general population does not hold Mr. Smith’s actions against Vante and its employees.

He thought he would be cute and harass an employee on video. It ended up costing him his job and creating havoc in his life.

The video that provided a costly lesson for Adam Smith.

YES !!!!

[Reidy]

I hope they hire the lady in the window to replace him.

[Selene]

I hope they hire the lady in the window to replace him.

Nice idea...

At least hire her and train her to rise in their corporation.

[Selene]

Across the nation yesterday, Chick-fil-A stores were filled to capacity with patrons supporting the restaurant chain’s freedom of speech. In an interesting twist, the Wendy’s chain also got in on the action. An owner of more than 85 Wendy’s franchises in North Carolina, decided to show his support for Chick-fil-A with the following note on his stores’ signs: “We Stand with Chick-fil-A.” Wendy’s corporate offices were not amused.

The North Carolina owner, Jim Furmen, was apparently told by Wendy’s corporate stiffs to take down the sign and then went into defensive mode to deflect what they perceived to be negative publicity. Wendy’s corporate tweeted: “An independent franchisee posted the sign, which he’s taken down.

We proudly serve ALL customers!” Kind of makes you wonder what “independent” means to Wendy’s corporate offices.

Wendy’s initial tweet set off a flurry of responses on Twitter, most of which were aimed at their statement about serving “all.” It was quickly pointed out that up until last week, Chick-fil-A was never known as being a restaurant that DID NOT “proudly serve all customers.” In fact, I can say without fear of contradiction that no customer who braved the crowds and long wait times at Chick-fil-A yesterday were asked by any company employee if they were for or against gay marriage. Chick-fil-A will “proudly serve” anyone who wants a chicken sandwich, regardless of personal beliefs or convictions, Wendy’s electronic protests to the contrary notwithstanding.

While the gay agenda-setters tried to spin the Chick-fil-A situation as being about marriage, the real issue is one of free speech and expression. Many supporters who came out yesterday were not necessarily expressing their views on traditional marriage, but on whether a company president has the right to speak his mind publicly and to answer questions from the media honestly. By forcing “independent franchisee” Jim Furmen to remove his signs, Wendy’s has shown that they will NOT tolerate the freedom of speech at their restaurants. They say they will “proudly serve ALL customers,” yet they will not allow their store owners to have the constitutional right to free speech. Who’s the bigot now?

What’s more is that Wendy’s may have stepped in it far more than they realize. As was already pointed out, the support for Chick-fil-A was not univocal. Many were supporting Chick-fil-A as a private entity over against a government one. Their presence and money were sending the message that political correctness can take a hike when it comes to private enterprise. By publicly isolating and distancing themselves from Chick-fil-A, Wendy’s has sent a message much louder than their intended message of “inclusiveness and tolerance.” Their intolerance to be counted among the Chick-fil-A supporters could very well affect Wendy’s economic bottom line. The overwhelming amount of eaters who waited patiently to spend money at Chick-fil-A yesterday are just as prone to not spend money at Wendy’s as they are to spend money at Chick-fil-A.

Further, if the long lines and open wallets are any indication of what America really thinks, the Democratic party could be in for a long campaign season. It has been said that time and money are the only two limited resources. If one is willing to work harder and more often (i.e. sacrificing time), more money can be made, which means that, in reality, time is the only true limited resource. We each have the same amount of it (unlike money) and we each choose how we will spend it. Since so many chose to spend their time and money yesterday in long lines at a fast-food restaurant, this should be an indication—rather than useless political polls and questionnaires—about what Americans really think. This should (but won’t) be a warning to the Democratic party, who have overwhelmingly chained themselves to supporting the gay agenda. Americans, when given the chance to “vote” with their time and wallets, have spoken. Is anyone listening?

Read more: http://politicaloutcast.com/2012/08/wendys-intolerant-of-free-speech/#ixzz22RjDvHW3

[Brant Gaede]

I really don't see any wrong with gay marriage--or Chick-a-fil. Wendy's was so bad before this mess I had already stopped going there, even for their great fries. Goodbye Wendy's, goodbye. Now I'm trying to get to Chick and hope I'm not going to poison myself with solidarity.

--Brant

first you didn't build that and now you can't eat that: goodbye, Dems, goodbye!

of course, the people who built Chick didn't build it anyway--so why complain and to whom?: You didn't say that--somebody else said that!

[9thdoctor]

of course, the people who built Chick didn't build it anyway--so why complain and to whom?: You didn't say that--somebody else said that!

Damn straight! Did they evolve the chicken? Hell no...shit, they didn't even invent the chicken coop! Someone else did that! Were they first to formulate concrete, or whatever their building's are made of? I don't think so...ergo their CEO had damn well better agree with whatever Obama's cronies are saying about..what's this about again? Gay marriage? WTF, 20 years ago that was a pipe dream. Try to jam it down people's throats and what do you think is going to happen?

[studiodekadent]

From what I have heard about the scandal, the problem with Chick-fil-A is that Chick-fil-A's profits often go towards anti-gay, conservative non-profits like Exodus International, Focus On The Family and Eagle Forum.

The fact that some city council members have threatened to use their power to deny Chick-fil-A any licenses to operate within their city is, also, a terrible abuse of power and those city council members should be called out for their statements.

However, I see nothing wrong in and of itself with a voluntary boycott of Chick-fil-A. Indeed, Dan Cathy's opinions alone are a perfectly legitimate reason for some to voluntarily boycott the chain (would YOU do business with someone that, say, openly said "Ayn Rand's philosophy is completely worthless and her ethics are sick and evil," for instance? I know I'd try not to do so). But the real line is crossed by Cathy's money funding anti-gay groups. That means buying a Chick-fil-A sandwhich constitutes giving existential aid to anti-gay, anti-freedom, anti-liberty, anti-individualism, anti-enlightenment nutcases.

Indeed, as I am a supporter of civil marriage equality, and an absolute hater of Focus On The Family and all those other backwater, conservative, anti-enlightenment nutcases, and someone that proudly shakes his fist in defiance at the Christian's fictional god, I will not eat at Chick-fil-A.

But nor will I support the attempts of leftist-dominated city councils to shut Chick-fil-A out of their cities. People should express their preferences voluntarily and support businesses that they agree with and refrain from patronizing businesses they do not agree with.

That said, Adam Smith's conduct was offensive and frankly stupid. Chick-fil-A's employees do not necessarily share Dan Cathy's views and being hostile towards said employees for someone else's beliefs is reprehensible (especially in a recession climate when people will take any job they can get).

[9thdoctor]

However, I see nothing wrong in and of itself with a voluntary boycott of Chick-fil-A.

I'm all for that too. However, I believe I've only been to Chick-fil-A once in my life, over 10 years ago, so I can't really say I'm engaged in a boycott.

[George H. Smith]

The proper course would be to get the state out of marriage contracts altogether and make all marriages purely religious and/or civil unions. Meanwhile, as Ayn Rand said in another context, there should be no discrimination when the government is involved in an activity. On this ground alone, gay marriage should be legalized.

Meanwhile, the effort of that mobster Rahm Emanuel to exclude Chick-fil-A restaurants from parts of Chicago is as flagrant a violation of civil rights as we have seen in a long, long time. The same is true of officials in Boston and Mountain View, Ca.

Chicago alderman Moreno is reported as having said about Chick-fil-A's president Dan Cathy: “Because of this man’s ignorance, I will now be denying Chick-fil-A’s permit to open a restaurant in the First Ward.” Who the hell do those people think they are? -- other than petty despots, that is.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

Inadvertant or not, the Chick CEO has buttressed up his business and Wendy's has damaged its. After the dust settles the actual permanent consequences will be measured quantitatively to find out the respective net positives and net negatives.

That drive-by bullying happened at a Chick place here in Tucson not far from George's old home.

--Brant

scratching around, hiding fear and dread, I prefer food-chain apex

[George H. Smith]

That drive-by bullying happened at a Chick place here in Tucson not far from George's old home.

A brain-dead liberal near my old home in Tucson? I knew things had gone downhill since I left in 1975, but I had no idea things have gotten that bad. 8-)

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

That drive-by bullying happened at a Chick place here in Tucson not far from George's old home.

A brain-dead liberal near my old home in Tucson? I knew things had gone downhill since I left in 1975, but I had no idea things have gotten that bad. 8-)

Ghs

That "idiot" has taken "brain-dead" to a whole new level and it ain't up.

I remember the arrogance and intellectual facade of the dominant liberalism of the late 1950s which covered up the actual destructive stupidity of what they were about then and are now. Remember Rand complaining the absence of intellectual give and take or debate one might imagine with a Newton N. Minow (tv's "vast wasteland") that since him had gone to shit? (It died with Kennedy.) Well, it always was shit and it's shit all the way down--bloody shit--real bloody shit!

--Brant

I'm talking about collectivism here--right here in River City!--what we need is a band, a freedom band!

[Selene]

Has anyone read what Dan Cathy, the CEO of the company, actually said about marriage, gay, or, otherwise?

[studiodekadent]

Dan Cathy's words: "We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that...we know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles."

AND

"I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,' and I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to try to redefine what marriage is about."

Source (with its own additional references and links) - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a-president-anti-gay_n_1680984.html

Cathy's opinions are stupid and bigoted and disgustingly misanthropic and mystical and Jesus-fascist but he is well within his legal rights to have them, and boycotters are well within their legal rights to stay away from Chick-fil-A as a result.

But the real outrage is that Cathy funds Focus On The Family, Exodus International, etc. This means some of the profits of all Chick-fil-A restaurants (even if these restaurants are owned by independent franchisees) go on to fund Constitional Ammendments banning same-sex marriage (an assault on both nonheterosexual persons AND federalism) alongside all the rest of the backward stupid mystic tripe that these religious groups push (like James Dobson's advocacy of child-beating for one).

This is NOT about Cathy's freedom of speech, except when it comes to mayors and aldermen threatening to block Chick-fil-A from getting permits. Boycotting Chick-fil-A is just as much a legitimate exercise of free speech as Cathy's comments.

[Brant Gaede]

Dan Cathy's words: "We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that...we know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles."

AND

"I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,' and I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to try to redefine what marriage is about."

Source (with its own additional references and links) - http://www.huffingto..._n_1680984.html

Cathy's opinions are stupid and bigoted and disgustingly misanthropic and mystical and Jesus-fascist but he is well within his legal rights to have them, and boycotters are well within their legal rights to stay away from Chick-fil-A as a result.

But the real outrage is that Cathy funds Focus On The Family, Exodus International, etc. This means some of the profits of all Chick-fil-A restaurants (even if these restaurants are owned by independent franchisees) go on to fund Constitional Ammendments banning same-sex marriage (an assault on both nonheterosexual persons AND federalism) alongside all the rest of the backward stupid mystic tripe that these religious groups push (like James Dobson's advocacy of child-beating for one).

This is NOT about Cathy's freedom of speech, except when it comes to mayors and aldermen threatening to block Chick-fil-A from getting permits. Boycotting Chick-fil-A is just as much a legitimate exercise of free speech as Cathy's comments.

Government is force (George Washington). Nothing more. There is no such thing as "free speech" respecting government functions by its functionaries respecting private citizens who have free speech unrestricted save by rights' violation (incitement to panic and violence and such). Private citizens rule, not public servants. Should be; ain't be. Chick can do what it wants. The basic question, though, is whether there should be state made and sanctioned corporations. To me, that's seminal fascism come "crony capitalism." So let the CEO say what he wants. The corporation shuts its public and private trap until it's dismantled.

--Brant

edit: if stockholders were liable for what is done with their property they'd take over truly private corporate governance and there'd be no more bloated high level corporate pay days in multiples of tens if not hundreds of millions of bucks and Monsanto poisoning the world with its crappy seed and other products

Edited August 4, 2012 by Brant Gaede

[anthony]

Brant, SDK,

Well put, and truly said, you guys.

[Selene]

Dan Cathy's words: "We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that...we know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles."

Andrew:

This is why I respect you. Those were his words.

Where is the anti-gay rights hate statement that the media is referring to?

Essentially, regardless of whether you, or I, agree with his position, Cathy's statement was an affirmative statement in support of the status quo version of "marriage" as being between one man and one woman.

One commentator, clearly an admirer, noted that:

"Dan Cathy's success has not erased the biblical values he learned as a child in a Baptist church.

He is a warm, common man who is deeply committed to being a faithful Christian witness. And

he is fully involved in New Hope Baptist Church in Fayetteville, Ga. He drives Chick-fil-A's efforts

to provide genuine hospitality, ensuring that customers have an exceptional dining experience in

a Chick-fil-A restaurant. Based on Matthew 5:41, Cathy is on a mission to provide customers

with "second-mile" service -- exceeding even the highest expectations of a typical fast-food

restaurant."

I [Adam] personally admire his managing style which is described as:

"Rather than leading from his corporate office in Atlanta, Cathy chooses to spend the majority of

his time traveling to the chain's growing family of restaurants and interacting with Chick-fil-A's

committed team members. His actions stem from a belief that working in the field provides a

clearer understanding of the needs of Chick-fil-A customers. Leading from the front line also

enables him personally to convey his servant spirit to

the chain's 61,000-plus employees." <<his business alone puts O'bama's net jobs numbers to shame...

In terms of what he has accomplished in the Atlanta community, this is illustrative of what a competent man accomplishes:

There was a time when the Atlanta college football bowl game, which is now named after

Chick-fil-A, was called the Peach Bowl. The annual bowl features teams from the ACC and

the SEC. It struggled for a long time. Then 15 years ago the Chick-fil-A organization got

involved. It was rebranded as the Chick-fil-A Bowl and has been incredibly successful with

15 consecutive sellouts.

The pair of Chick-fil-A Kickoff games is expected to generate more than $60 million in

economic impact.

The bowl website describes the event as "a college football celebration

of epic proportions."

Cathy has stated that:

"We’re a restaurant that has a hospitality that says we’re here to embrace everyone who wants to come and

be part of Chick-fil-A.

We have a whole spectrum of team members that work with us who are part of the gay

and lesbian community. They know as employees of Chick-fil-A that they are welcomed, they are embraced,

and they are part of the Chick-fil-A family. So to be identified with some sort of hate group that has a political

agenda—that is not Chick-fil-A at all.”

Hmm, so who shall we believe has the more credible ethical agenda?

Who would you trust to tell you the truth?

Who would you want to have in your community?

Adam

[studiodekadent]

Andrew:

This is why I respect you. Those were his words.

Where is the anti-gay rights hate statement that the media is referring to?

If one believes that legal recognition of marriages should be restricted to opposite-sex couples, one is endorsing a denial of equal treatment under the law (and hence attacking the concept of the Rule Of Law) for a specific class of citizens.

Would you call it a hateful thing to deny black people equal treatment under the law? I think you would. The same applies to legal recognition of same-sex marriage.

I accept that in theory, one can disagree with legalizing same-sex civil marriage without hating gay people, but only through ignorance. Cathy is a devout Southern Baptist and a reasonably intelligent adult male. I find it hard to believe that he doesn't think non-heterosexuality is evil.

He doesn't state the exact words "God Hates Fags" or "Burn The Queers" but his statement makes his moral beliefs crystal clear. Cathy believes it is immoral to not be straight.

He also donates money to groups like Focus On The Family, Eagle Forum etc. These groups have a very, very long history of anti-gay-rights activism. This alone is enough to justify concluding that Cathy is against gay rights.

Take that in context with his second statement: "I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,' and I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to try to redefine what marriage is about."

What does this say about Cathy's epistemology and ethics?

Cathy hates more than the gays. He hates the entire underpinning of the Enlightenment.

Cathy's statements may not include the exact words "Kill The Faggots" but his donations to various nonprofits, his statements to the press, and his religious affiliation make his stance on the issue perfectly clear.

And I do not believe it to be unfair to characterize Cathy's stance as bigoted, backwards, irrational, anti-rational, misanthropic, and even hateful.

Hmm, so who shall we believe has the more credible ethical agenda?

Who would you trust to tell you the truth?

Who would you want to have in your community?

People's moral character can fluctuate over multiple dimensions. They can be very good in some areas and very bad in others. Also, I should add that Chick-fil-A stores are independent franchises and collaborative enterprises so we can't credit every positive experience at Chick-fil-A to Cathy alone.

One can easily believe that his business itself (independent of his donations, beliefs and statements) is a good, moral enterprise, whilst still condemning his beliefs and donations and statements.

And I would not trust a religious fundamentalist to be truthful. They are habitual liars and manipulators.

Nor would I want religious fundamentalists in my community. I wouldn't use force to stop them moving in but I do not like them; unless their faith can be fixed they are inherently morally deformed (no, that doesn't mean they are wholly evil, but they are significantly flawed).

And before you accuse me of being bigoted towards Christianity (I should clarify that I am talking here about the fundamentalist branches of Christianity, including the conservative Southern Baptists as well as Evangelicals and Pentecostals), please remember that tolerance is founded on intellectually honest debate (in the case of tolerating different beliefs), as well as individualism (in the case of tolerating people of different races, sexualities etc... judging people by the content of their character rather than their skin color, to paraphrase MLK). Fundamentalist Christianity, by definition, rejects intellectually honest debate (by substituting faith, instead) and also rejects judging people rationally on a case-by-case basis (because all that matters is if you've accepted Jesus/been saved/etc).

For fundamentalist Christianity to invoke "bigotry" arguments outside the context of political tolerance (i.e. yes, they are fully entitled to have their individual rights respected and to have no one start or advocate the use of force, fraud or coercion against them) constitutes the Stolen Concept Fallacy.

[Selene]

Andrew:

I can only share with you my personal experiences with these types of deeply religious individuals,

The concept of hate does not arise in either their thoughts, or, their language. Now, I grant you that some of these folks think that being gay is against God's direction. However, they also think that stealing, killing, etc. is against God's direction and will.

They do not hate the thief, or the murderer, or the gay person.

My problem is with the semantics being used by the pro-gay marriage crowd. Until I heard Cathy's statements and read them, I thought he specifically stated all the "anti" gay marriage statements that were echoed and reverberated in the media.

Believe me, I had a really difficult time wrapping my mind around the concept of Christian love. However, it exists and it is not hateful at all.

That is the primary distinction that I am attempting to make regarding this controversy.

Adam

[George H. Smith]

Andrew:

I can only share with you my personal experiences with these types of deeply religious individuals,

The concept of hate does not arise in either their thoughts, or, their language. Now, I grant you that some of these folks think that being gay is against God's direction. However, they also think that stealing, killing, etc. is against God's direction and will.

They do not hate the thief, or the murderer, or the gay person.

My problem is with the semantics being used by the pro-gay marriage crowd. Until I heard Cathy's statements and read them, I thought he specifically stated all the "anti" gay marriage statements that were echoed and reverberated in the media.

Believe me, I had a really difficult time wrapping my mind around the concept of Christian love. However, it exists and it is not hateful at all.

That is the primary distinction that I am attempting to make regarding this controversy.

Adam

My personal experiences have been much different, possibly because I have published three books with the word "atheism" in the titles.

After I moved to Bloomington in late 1999, I had to deal with my (former) inlaws, all of whom are born-again Christians. It was a nightmare from the beginning, even though I went out of my way to be cordial and never brought up religion. When I went out with my wife and her extended family, virtually no one would say a word to me, despite my best efforts to be sociable. It finally got so bad that I refused to attend family gatherings any longer.

I got hit with "Christian love," good and hard, after my wife suffered a serious stroke some years ago. On my first visit to the hospital I was kicked out after five minutes. After I demanded to know how the hospital could ban a husband from visiting his wife, I was told that Myra (my mother-in-law) had informed the hospital staff that I should not be allowed to visit my wife. (The Kroutil family is very well connected in Bloomington, and they seemed to know everyone.)

After I returned home from the hospital, I found that my house was being raided by the Kroutil Klan and around 10 of their friends. Having used an extra key to gain entrance, they were loading everything they could get their hands on into cars and pickup trucks that were clogging my driveway. They said they were loading my wife's belongings because she shouldn't be living with me any longer -- even though they had no idea what was hers and what was mine. They took boxes of books that I needed for work, personal papers, and even my dog. According to those vicious fools, I was somehow responsible for my wife's stroke, and she would go to hell (even though she was an atheist long before I met her) if something was not done.

Infuriated, I grabbed a large flashlight, raised it back, and came close to clobbering my brother-in-law in the head. I composed myself, however, and told everyone to get the hell out. I then called the cops, as the Christian Caravan drove off with around half of everything I owned.

The police officer was a nice fellow who agreed that the KK had no right to do what they did. (My wife was comatose at the time, and so could not have given her permission.) When he asked who the ringleader was I mentioned my brother-in-law. And when I said I would get his phone number, the cop replied, "Oh, I know Pete's number. We went to high school together."

I felt like I was in an episode of the Twilight Zone.

Anyway, the cop drove me over to my mother-in-law's house, just a few blocks away, where the loot was being stored in her garage. The cop said they had to return everything the next day (this was at night), but he asked what I wanted to get immediately. I demanded my dog back -- who would have ended up in a pound. No one wanted him, and stealing him was nothing other than pure viciousness. I also got some personal papers back immediately, including my birth certificate, and everything else was returned the following day.

The story got worse at this, but I will spare readers the horrific details.

I have had my fill of Christian love. I never did anything to those people, and they went after me with a vengeance during a terrible period in my life.

To those who might think that my experience was unusual, I should point out the logic of the actions taken by my inlaws. If you believe -- truly believe -- that a person is, or will be, responsible for sending a loved-one to hell, then you might very well feel justified in doing anything to that person to save your loved one.

This inner logic of ideas has a long and distinguished provenance in Christian history. Most famously, it was the foundation for Augustine's vicious and highly influential theory of "righteous persecution."

I am very skeptical of those Christians who claim to hate the sin of homosexuality while loving the sinner. There certainly are exceptions, but for the most part I think this is a mere facade. Christians -- Bible thumpers specifically -- may not hate thieves or even murderers, and they may not hate gays within their own families, but when it comes to atheists and gays generally, personal hatred runs deep.

Ghs

[anthony]

The State owns your soul - or God owns your soul, it's the vicious false

dichotomy that's tearing America apart. For stating the obvious,

guilty as charged. I just think it can't be said often enough.

Positions are hardened every time "they" are 'wrong' - it means

"we" must be 'right'.

[BaalChatzaf]

Ah yes! Life among the goyim.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[studiodekadent]

Andrew:

I can only share with you my personal experiences with these types of deeply religious individuals,

The concept of hate does not arise in either their thoughts, or, their language.

As George said, I think our experiences have differed.

Sure, I've met non-asshole fundamentalists. Even had reasonable discussions with a few. But the idea that they are incapable of hate? Really? That's about as demented as Lady Gaga's "Born This Way" video where she characterizes gay people as being incapable of hate (yes, I forced myself to watch it. It made me vomit and I felt my testicles shrivel in horror as I watched it. Trust me, it is terrible).

I don't think "hate" is evil-ickybad-sticky-nastiness. I think it is the natural reaction to that which you consider evil and monstrous (just like you love/admire/have affection for that which you consider good and noble). I'm not saying that they are evil because they "hate."

I am saying that the facts they condemn non-heterosexuals, theologically believe homosexual sex acts to be intrinsically evil, sponsor political activism to deny legal equality for non-heterosexual relationships, believe faith to be superior to reason, etc. etc. make them threats to the Enlightenment values we Objectivists hold, and are at least symptomatic of significant character flaws. Even if (for example) it is just cognitive cowardice making them retreat into faith and away from reason and are thus "screwed up" moreso than evil, they have serious problems.

[caroljane]

The State owns your soul - or God owns your soul, it's the vicious false

dichotomy that's tearing America apart. For stating the obvious,

guilty as charged. I just think it can't be said often enough.

Positions are hardened every time "they" are 'wrong' - it means

"we" must be 'right'.

No, it can't be said often enough and thanks for keeping on saying it. It has been proven that to the committed, contrary evidence of one's beliefs only harden them and increase the suspicion and paranoia towards one's opponents. Haters will find channels for their hate, and religion per se is only one of them.

Just back from church and a knees-up at the Lodge with Adam, .. happy Day of Rest to all!