Binswanger blamestorms on Newtown massacre

[9thdoctor]

http://www.solopassion.com/node/9527#comment-117947

Poking around the SLOP trough yielded another interesting item, this time it’s material from Harry Binswanger’s private email list, presumably reproduced with permission. Here’s the eyebrow raiser:

But one thing that the law should return to doing is locking away the dangerously insane. The libertarian Thomas Szaz was instrumental in the movement begun in the late 60s to dump crazies back on the streets. He bears heavy guilt for many of these Newtown-type atrocities.

That’s right, it’s the famous libertarian’s fault. Now, what I’d like to know is what regulatory regime HB has in mind, particularly that would have prevented Newtown. The perp had no criminal record whatsoever, the most anyone ever accused him of was being shy. Oh, and having no friends. Kind of like Roark at Stanton. Add to that the fact that he tried to buy a gun, and couldn’t because he was too young, so he took his mother’s weapons after killing her. So, Harry, would you favor what, maybe that no guns may be owned by mothers of shy young men? There's no point blaming Thomas Szasz for that loophole.

[BaalChatzaf]

The late Tomas Szaz pointed out how psychiatric shennanigans were used by the government to persecute individuals with unpopular anti-government opinions. He was a friend of liberty.

Psychiatry is a pseudo science in any case.

The only cure for so-called mental illness is the right kind of medication. We are organic finite state machines who can spoof the Turing test. But we are, as was said on ST:TNG big ugly bags of mostly water. Any cures must be medicinal.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Mikee]

If it begins ("instability" means no rights? Who decides?) where does it end? http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/18/16588357-anger-violent-thoughts-are-you-too-sick-to-own-a-gun?lite

[jts]

The only cure for so-called mental illness is the right kind of medication.

Dr. Moser had success with mental patients by treating them as cases of an allergy. An allergy sometimes can produce mental symptoms. Identify the thing that the patient is allergic to and then have the patient avoid it.

Dr. Russell Blaylock is up to his ears in peer reviewed evidence of connections between mental symptoms and diet, including certain poisons in diet.

Dr. Shelton in "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting" says mental patients respond well to fasting. (Perhaps this is why some of them instinctively refuse to eat.)

Medication is poison. It is not a food and is not an element of nutrition and has no place in the body. The side effects of meds are poisonous effects. The target effects are poisonous effects. Sometimes meds do brain damage. Most crazy shootings were done by a person on or coming off a med.

Antidepressants work in a way. If you are depressed, take an antidepressant and you are no longer depressed. So the reasoning of most people will be it works. Yes, you are no longer depressed and you no longer have feelings of any kind. Not good.

In general, the way to mental health is physical health.

[Reidy]

Binswanger isn't alone: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/01/17/midler-mental-health-blame-reagan.

[Robert Campbell]

ND,

I'm also not sure on what grounds Adam Lanza would have been locked up, before he started shooting.

Robert Campbell

[GALTGULCH8]

As I understand it, most states have laws or regulations which enable a person with either suicidal or homicidal ideation to be hospitalized against their will for a period of time, ten days in MA, to determine whether they are "committable, that is, mentally ill and dangerous.

The speculation is that Lanza's mother let him know she was considering having him hospitalized for treatment against his will but she went to sleep oblivious to the fact that he became enraged at the prospect of being put in a mental hospital.

If it was something she wanted to do she should have gotten a court order and done it rather than not being prepared to deal with his angry reaction.

[Mark]

The mainstream press is negligent in not ferreting out what "medication" Lanza was taking. It's likely he was on SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) drugs. Did Binswanger mention that?

SSRI Stories - The link between SSRI drugs and rampages

[Neil Parille]

I read something by a psychiatrist who said if you looked at the mental health files of the mass shooters (before they started shooting) they don't look all that different from those of the mentally troubled who don't engage in violence.

I'm not sure how much Szasz had to do with our current policies with respect to involuntary commitment. He has always been seen as something of a fringe figure, from what I can tell. I think it was more a result of lawsuits by the ACLU.

Funny how Binswanger has to find a "libertarian" to blame. He has favorably quoted libertarians when it comes to the claim that immigration doesn't result in increased crime.

-Neil Parille

[Brant Gaede]

Billy Beck has this one right. It's about lack of values.

If you can't even abstractly value a 6 or 7 yo child there's not much reason you can't shoot him. The culture is going rancid consequently, for the non-valuing of what should be valued, for the general lack of values.

--Brant

BB: "casual nihilism"

[BaalChatzaf]

The mainstream press is negligent in not ferreting out what "medication" Lanza was taking. It's likely he was on SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) drugs. Did Binswanger mention that?

SSRI Stories - The link between SSRI drugs and rampages

At a time, some 30 years ago I had a bout with clinical depression (I am happy to say it was short lived). I was using SSRI medication. For the record, I did not get a hold of a rifle and kill a lot of people.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Jonathan]

I was using SSRI medication. For the record, I did not get a hold of a rifle and kill a lot of people.

Ba'al Chatzaf

So, you used a pistol?

J

[Selene]

I was using SSRI medication. For the record, I did not get a hold of a rifle and kill a lot of people.

Ba'al Chatzaf

So, you used a pistol?

J

J.

If I remember some of his posts, it was an air to surface missile...

A...

[william.scherk]

The mainstream press is negligent in not ferreting out what "medication" Lanza was taking.

SSRI Stories - The link between SSRI drugs and rampages

Kewl. Looks like all I need to know, to get my dander up and prepare to judge.

Um, er ...

Website "SSRI Stories" Distorts the Connection Between Violence and SSRI Antidepressants

There are a lot of people out there who passionately believe taking SSRI antidepressants leads to violence, crime and suicide so often that they should be banned. The SNRIs - Effexor and Cymbalta - also come under fire. But guess what? My review of one of these sites, "SSRI Stories," finds that the news stories chosen usually don't prove any such connection, and that the site's authors even make efforts to distort the stories in their commentary.

While it's true that sometimes there's a connection between antidepressant use and violent behavior, it's nowhere near as common as these folks want you to believe.

Here's an example of the stretch these people go to in trying to make their point. Buried in a 50+ paragraph article about a man who shot and killed a New York City councilman in 2003 is the information that the killer had prescriptions for Paxil and Valium. Never mind that killer had been arrested for assault in 1993. Never mind that the killer and the victim had been clashing for some time over the former's desire to run for the latter's seat on the City Council. All that matters to "SSRI Stories" is that he had those prescriptions, and that's what they extract at the top of the page.

Understand, I didn't go looking specifically for items where "SSRI Stories" distorted the connection between antidepressants and violence. I just clicked random links, and time after time I found the same kind of thing. Yes, they have a number of cases that were successfully defended using the "SSRI defense." And no, I'm not saying there is never a connection. But websites like this one that go to great lengths to prove their allegations by distorting the evidence just can't be taken seriously.

See also: Website "SSRI Stories" Presents Distorted Information

[Mark]

Biology doesn't alwys present us with "if A then always B." If there’s an implication sometimes it’s "If A then B is more probable."

The point is not that if a person is given Haldol or whatever they will become violent.

If most of the bizarre killings that make the national news were perpetrated by people on so-called antidepressants, this would be consistent with the fact that most people given so-called antidepressants do not become violent. (It would however make one suspicious that so called antidepressants aren’t doing them any good. And in fact they aren’t, see the work of Dr. Breggin, for example Toxic Psychiatry.)

Buried in a 50+ paragraph article about a man who shot and killed a New York City councilman in 2003 is the information that the killer had prescriptions for Paxil and Valium. Never mind that killer had been arrested for assault in 1993. Never mind that the killer and the victim had been clashing for some time over the former’s desire to run for the latter’s seat on the City Council. All that matters to "SSRI Stories" is that he had those prescriptions, and that’s what they extract at the top of the page.

The story belonged in the collection. Indeed, "all that matters" is that the killer was on so-called antidepressants. Given enough such stories, as a percentage of all killing stories, does lead to the conclusion that so-called anti-depressants increase the likelihood of violence.

The only distortion is that the SSRI website doesn’t present its data in percentage terms, that is, it doesn’t address the total number of killing stories (SSRI related or not).

Talk about buried, why aren’t we being told what drugs Lanza was on, or that he wasn't on any?

[BaalChatzaf]

I was using SSRI medication. For the record, I did not get a hold of a rifle and kill a lot of people.

Ba'al Chatzaf

So, you used a pistol?

J

No. I breathed on them and my halitosis did the rest.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Billy Beck has this one right. It's about lack of values.

If you can't even abstractly value a 6 or 7 yo child there's not much reason you can't shoot him. The culture is going rancid consequently, for the non-valuing of what should be valued, for the general lack of values.

--Brant

BB: "casual nihilism"

Brant,

I read the Billy Beck piece.

It's definitely food for thought, but as with most pronouncements like this ("Lanza is the end game," etc.), the scope is off.

His view is a piece of the problem. It's not the whole shebang.

(By "values," I'm presuming he means chosen values.)

I will say this. When you raise an entire generation on a constant bombardment of nonstop electronic propaganda, sales messages, cultural "nudges," subliminal monkey-business, and other purposefully targeted attempts at subconscious manipulation, you will wreak havoc on fragile minds.

People already do lots of stupid things when they can't discern the fiction story from the reality. Well, imagine the inner state of someone whose brain responds with identical reactions to both fiction and reality and that person has been programmed that way from birth.

You get a remote control value mentality. You don't like the value in front of you? Push the button on the remote control and you can have another from a wide selection. But every one of them comes wrapped in covert crap. This means you never know when you genuinely like one or whether you like it because you were manipulated into it without realizing how. The only constant is you get really ticked off when the remote fails to deliver.

This is similar, but not identical, to the remote control reality mentality. But the impatience is the same. Notice how these people get stressed when a war doesn't go away by pushing on the remote control.

Rather than call this cultural psychosis from never being taught values, like Billy does, I believe "addiction" is a far more apt and precise big-picture description.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Billy Beck has this one right. It's about lack of values.

If you can't even abstractly value a 6 or 7 yo child there's not much reason you can't shoot him. The culture is going rancid consequently, for the non-valuing of what should be valued, for the general lack of values.

--Brant

BB: "casual nihilism"

Brant,

I read the Billy Beck piece.

It's definitely food for thought, but as with most pronouncements like this ("Lanza is the end game," etc.), the scope is off.

His view is a piece of the problem. It's not the whole shebang.

(By "values," I'm presuming he means chosen values.)

I will say this. When you raise an entire generation on a constant bombardment of nonstop electronic propaganda, sales messages, cultural "nudges," subliminal monkey-business, and other purposefully targeted attempts at subconscious manipulation, you will wreak havoc on fragile minds.

People already do lots of stupid things when they can't discern the fiction story from the reality. Well, imagine the inner state of someone whose brain responds with identical reactions to both fiction and reality and that person has been programmed that way from birth.

You get a remote control value mentality. You don't like the value in front of you? Push the button on the remote control and you can have another from a wide selection. But every one of them comes wrapped in covert crap. This means you never know when you genuinely like one or whether you like it because you were manipulated into it without realizing how. The only constant is you get really ticked off when the remote fails to deliver.

This is similar, but not identical, to the remote control reality mentality. But the impatience is the same. Notice how these people get stressed when a war doesn't go away by pushing on the remote control.

Rather than call this cultural psychosis from never being taught values, like Billy does, I believe "addiction" is a far more apt and precise big-picture description.

Michael

Food for thought. I see two battling dissertations, but they've yet to be written.

--Brant

[Ellen Stuttle]

The late Tomas Szaz pointed out how psychiatric shennanigans were used by the government to persecute individuals with unpopular anti-government opinions. He was a friend of liberty.

Psychiatry is a pseudo science in any case.

The only cure for so-called mental illness is the right kind of medication. We are organic finite state machines who can spoof the Turing test. But we are, as was said on ST:TNG big ugly bags of mostly water. Any cures must be medicinal.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Looks as if you never read Szasz, since your third paragraph and his views are disjunct.

Ellen