caroljane Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Adam and DDL,You two are the kind of parents who have always made me feel like a complete piker. Frankly I was just glad when my kids paid attention to anything they heard at school (Son #2 never seemed to hear much except in gym class) and expected them to learn about religion and politics at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dldelancey Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Adam and DDL,You two are the kind of parents who have always made me feel like a complete piker. Frankly I was just glad when my kids paid attention to anything they heard at school (Son #2 never seemed to hear much except in gym class) and expected them to learn about religion and politics at home.I had to look up "piker" to know whether or not I was being insulted. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 Do you want to see the Overton Window in action? Look at this crap: GLENN BECK EVISCERATES MSNBC PROMO CLAIMING YOUR KIDS BELONG TO THE ‘WHOLE COMMUNITY’ — AND MAKES SOME SCARY CONNECTIONS I'm posting TheBlaze link instead of another because Glenn has some great observations, but even he missed an obvious Overton Window pattern. Here's the video in question: The purpose of the MSNBC ad with Melissa Harris-Perry for it's Lean Forward network slogan is not to convince people that the state should own their children, It's designed to fail. I believe the big dogs at MSNBC know this is going to cause controversy and they probably have an exit strategy all planned out where they "explain" in doublespeak gobbledygook that Harris-Perry didn't really mean what she said. In the meantime, people will take their eyes off Common Core and when they come back to the outrage against it, they will feel that it is not so bad since they got the MSNBC lady to back off on the state owning their sons and daughters. At least Common Core will be worthy of discussion without such a strong emotional load against it. This is called moving the Overton Window in a culture. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 8, 2013 Author Share Posted April 8, 2013 If anyone wants to see Glenn's comments on the MSNBC ad real quick, here's the video: Your browser does not support iframes. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Adam and DDL,You two are the kind of parents who have always made me feel like a complete piker. Frankly I was just glad when my kids paid attention to anything they heard at school (Son #2 never seemed to hear much except in gym class) and expected them to learn about religion and politics at home.I had to look up "piker" to know whether or not I was being insulted. LOL. I just looked it up myself - I had always just assumed it meant a lazy or cowardly person - but the definition isn't so far off even so. I am certainly stingy about gambling, $4 a month on lottery tickets is my limit.Having children in the first place is the big gamble. In Adam's case as he described, they risked everything, and reaped everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 If anyone wants to see Glenn's comments on the MSNBC ad real quick, here's the video:Your browser does not support iframes.MichaelStraight out of Plato's -Republic-.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Glenn interviewed a person this morning, a guy who works with neuroscience and statistics.Here is the work from the Department of Education that has them wound up (you can download a PDF at the link below, but this may change as they have moved it once already after Glenn starting publicizing it):Promoting Grit, Tenacity, and Perseverance—Critical Factors for Success in the 21st Centurybtw - Being a government publication, this is in the public domain, even though it is still in draft form.Here is a picture from the PDF that shows some of the devices they intend to use on children from first grade (if not kindergarten) all the way up to graduation.The guy Glenn interviewed (sorry, I didn't write down his name) says a compilation of this data by the government is dangerous because of the lack of controls on the input. However, he is all for private compilations. He presented two scenarios.The first was when a graduate seeks a job at a company and the HR department looks at the data the government compiled over the years. This data will inform the company more about whether the interviewee is a good fit than the interview itself. In the second, a person goes for a job interview and brings with him data he himself has agreed to, Then he says, "I have some data in addition to my academic record."In the first, he gets pot luck compiled from school staff over years and civil servants. Does anyone think all their school teachers have been paragons of rationality?Also, brainy people and outliers (think someone like Steve Jobs) will be "corrected" as they go through their education to fit in with the government's view of how they should think. And that's the scariest scenario of all.The government will be able to pick and choose the geniuses in society without anyone knowing.For those interested, here is some more stuff from Glenn, especially him rebutting the endorsement of Common Core by The National Review. (Big government conservatives love Common Core and Glenn blasts them for it.)The Whole Story on Common CoreLife is short and this stuff is a hell of a long haul. But gotta trudge on....Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82ARP Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 This is an interesting thread. All of 4 of our kids, are/will be attending private (Christian) school next year. My two sons currently attend. Our recently adopted daughters from Russia (arrived 2/13), in first and fourth grade are in public school for the remainder of the school and will then attend the school where I teach. My boys were adopted when they were 6 and had a very bad life prior. They are ADHD and maybe some Asperger’s, but equally intelligen. Short story, we had to place them in separate schools for the time. One went where I teach and the other in the local public school (which is rated #3 in the state of Florida) . After three years of separate schools, we saw that the son attending my school was at least 4-5 months ahead of the curriculum in the public school and learning more. Homework requirements were also more demanding. I noticed that the public school’s course material, especially in the English and social studies curricula were politically correct, value neutral, socialist and environmentalist wacko oriented. All the garbage I’ve heard about the public schools was true.The elementary son now goes to the private school, but he is struggling academically which I attribute to the low demands/expectations of the public schools. To me, the greatest threat of public schools teaching our children is the socialist/collectivist mentality and insidious post-modern ideology, i.e., ideas we might scoff at are accepted through “tolerance” rather than having their content evaluated and critiqued. The Common Core is yet another government program aimed at egalitarianism and I’m pleased to see Beck and Malkin exposing it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 The following isn't Common Core, but it show just how far the infiltration of indoctrination goes on the ground level in the education system.I bet there are pockets like this all over America.DAD FURIOUS AFTER FINDING THIS CRAYON-WRITTEN PAPER IN FLORIDA 4TH-GRADER’S BACKPACK: ‘I AM WILLING TO GIVE UP SOME OF MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS…TO BE SAFER’by Madeleine MorgensternApril 12, 2013TheBlazeFrom the article:The words are written in crayon, in the haphazard bumpiness of a child’s scrawl.“I am willing to give up some of my constitutional rights in order to be safer or more secure.”They're the words that Florida father Aaron Harvey was stunned to find his fourth-grade son had written, after a lesson in school about the Constitution.Harvey’s son attends Cedar Hills Elementary in Jacksonville, Fla. Back in January, a local attorney came in to teach the students about the Bill of Rights. But after the attorney left, fourth-grade teacher Cheryl Sabb dictated the sentence to part of the class and had them copy it down, he said.The paper sat unnoticed in Harvey’s son’s backpack for several months until last week, when his son’s mother almost threw it away. The words caught her eye in the trash, and she showed it to Harvey, who said he was at a loss for words. He asked his son, who said Sabb had spoken the sentence out loud and told them to write it down. Harvey said he asked some of his son’s classmates and got a similar answer. There is an investigation, but in the article, the school has responded that the child wrote it all on his own and the teacher didn't have anything to do with it. The problem is the memory of the other little children, who recall the teacher actually dictating it. I guess they were all hypnotized or in collusion to protect one of their own or sumpin'...Damn 4th graders...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Michael, we don't know enough about the story behind that story to know if the teacher should be criticized. Even that if the father had then discussed that with his son. The issue here aside from the existence of public education is the apparent absence of anybody's critical thinking about an idea.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Brant,I agree that more knowledge is needed to make a fully reasoned judgment, but context can provide the elements to appreciate this story as highly plausible.And here's my context. If I had not lived through seeing the garbage from school being fed to Sean and Tina once I got involved with Kat, I would have discarded this story as too incomplete to take seriously. (My own biological sons are in Brazil and, from what I have seen, were educated by a much better public school system.)As it stands, I am far, far more likely to believe the father and disbelieve anything the school authorities say while covering their asses, especially since their response has fluctuated a bit, to use a polite term.In other words, this might be anecdotal in nature (so far, or at least so long as the investigation unfolds), but it jibes a lot with the reality I have lived. The minimum it needed to prompt--in light of the sorry context of public education and indoctrination--was public exposure and an investigation. And it has gotten both.Here's a more obvious example of indoctrination of young kids in a public school caught on video. Mmm, mmm, mmm!Barak Hussein ObamaHe said that all must lend a handTo make this country strong againMmm, mmm, mm!Barack Hussein ObamaHe said we must be fair todayEqual work means equal payMmm, mmm, mm!Barack Hussein ObamaHe said that we must take a standTo make sure everyone gets a chanceMmm, mmm, mm!Barack Hussein ObamaHe said red, yellow, black or whiteAll are equal in his sightMmm, mmm, mm!Barack Hussein ObamaYes!Mmm, mmm, mmBarack Hussein ObamaRemember that one?This is how to prepare the social context to passively accept the rise of totalitarian government a few decades later. When those kids grow up, they will think, what's the big deal about freedom, anyway? We have our stuff and goodies and we've had it all our lives.That works and it works well. Just look at history.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 OK.The trashing of constitutional rights as indoctrination of young kids did not please.So back to Common Core:STUDENTS ASKED TO ‘ARGUE THAT JEWS ARE EVIL’ AND PROVE NAZI LOYALTY IN ASSIGNMENT LINKED TO COMMON COREby Tiffany GabbayApril 12, 2013TheBlazeFrom the article:Students in some Albany High School English classes were asked to participate in the unthinkable this week as part of a persuasive writing assignment. The objective? Prove why Jews are evil and convince the teacher of their loyalty to the Third Reich in five paragraphs or less.“You must argue that Jews are evil, and use solid rationale from government propaganda to convince me of your loyalty to the Third Reich!” read the description on the assignment, which the school superintendent said reflects the kind of sophisticated writing expected of students under the new Common Core standards and was meant to hone students’ persuasive argument abilities.. . .Students were asked to draw on elements of the great philosopher Aristotle, and frame their arguments as either: “Logos” (persuasion by reasoning), “Pathos” (persuasion by emotional appeal) or “Ethos” (persuasion by the author’s character).Nonetheless, a reported one-third of the Albany students refused to complete the assignment. How's them apples? Aristotle, folks...Good on that one-third. There are still moral kids out there who refuse to be corrupted by such blatant indoctrination. (But that two-thirds gives me the willies.)I wonder if there is another assignment in the Common Core propaganda skills program that would teach students to read a lot of KKK material and then try to convince a Grand Wizard that blacks are evil as a class exercise. Using Aristotle and all.Or go through a lot of fundamentalist religious material and try to convince a church elder that homosexuals are evil.I could go on...Somehow I don't think these exercises would make the cut.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Kids certainly are impressionable.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 It looks to me like the teacher was doing a good job getting the kids to understand the nature of propaganda and the cultural forces that allow it to substitute for truth.Good on the one-third, indeed. And bad on the knee-jerk reactions of the school administration.As a teacher though, I would not have set an essay with that context - it is just an exercise in compiling the propaganda and deploying it in various styles. Rather I would set a refutation essay to specific pieces, with countervailing examples and arguments.But the very act of deciding to accept or refuse this assignment, taught that class some valuable lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dglgmut Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 That last one seems to me the opposite of indoctrination. They're allowing the students to examine persuasion methods and likely become more aware of and less susceptible to those methods.I agree with Carol, except I don't even have a problem with the context or the topic. Othering, imputations of malice, and dehumanization are the most evil forms of propaganda and everyone should be aware of these techniques.They say we are most critical of others when they demonstrate things we dislike about ourselves, and I think to actually create their own propaganda would be the best way to help the students understand how it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Carol,I agree with you in part.It's just it seems to be the Jews, always the Jews.I hold that teachers of such a program--the ones who agree with it--could not possibly have used blacks or homosexuals in the place of the Jews in that exercise without going into a diatribe based on class warfare and taking the side of the oppressed class.All with the respective emotional load, of course.But with the Jews, it's "objective."Heh.There actually is a hidden element of bigotry in this thing.I don't mind the program's bigotry so much as it indoctrinating the kids with it.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Here's a question for you.Who suffered more oppression, black slaves or Jewish members of concentration camps?Any reasonable person says they both suffered the same.But that's not how it plays out in practice in Progressive education.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Here's a question for you.Who suffered more oppression, black slaves of Jewish members of concentration camps?Any reasonable person says they both suffered the same.But that's not how it plays out in practice in Progressive education.MichaelIs this an appeal to the person or authority?How could they have suffered the same?--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Here's a question for you.Who suffered more oppression, black slaves of Jewish members of concentration camps?Any reasonable person says they both suffered the same.But that's not how it plays out in practice in Progressive education.MichaelYou wrote "of" I assume you meant "or".Black slaves were sometimes worked to death, but many lived to have children.Many Jews and the children they had with them were gassed. Neither fate is pleasant. But if I had a choice between working hard and possibly living to be free again or being gassed I would chose the first and not the second.Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 You wrote "of" I assume you meant "or". Bob, Thanks. I corrected the typo. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Here's a non-TheBlaze update I caught on a news feed:NY teacher who assigned Nazi letter put on leaveApril 13, 2013Associated PressFrom the article:A high school English teacher who had students pretend to be Jew-hating Nazis in a writing assignment has been placed on leave.The teacher at Albany High School caused a storm of criticism after having students practice the art of persuasive writing by penning a letter to a fictitious Nazi government official arguing that "Jews are evil."District Superintendent Marguerite Vanden Wyngaard held a news conference Friday to apologize for the assignment. Let's see how this develops.Ironically, if this turns into ham-handed stifling of the public discussion of this matter by firing the teacher, I'm against it.I really do think this teacher needs to go before the public and justify her lesson plan. I would love to present an alternative about blacks or homosexuals to her (or see someone else do it) and ask if she would be willing to teach that--including all the nasty language and slurs on blacks and homosexuals, of course, to make it an authentic study of persuasion and propaganda.I believe this debate by public educators needs to be in public, not dampened for show and continued elsewhere under the radar.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Carol,I agree with you in part.It's just it seems to be the Jews, always the Jews.I hold that teachers of such a program--the ones who agree with it--could not possibly have used blacks or homosexuals in the place of the Jews in that exercise without going into a diatribe based on class warfare and taking the side of the oppressed class.All with the respective emotional load, of course.But with the Jews, it's "objective."Heh.There actually is a hidden element of bigotry in this thing.I don't mind the program's bigotry so much as it indoctrinating the kids with it.MichaelAnd I agree with you. But I think your extrapolations are a bit egregious."Could not possibly" does not equate "did". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 And I agree with you. But I think your extrapolations are a bit egregious."Could not possibly" does not equate "did".Carol,Of course she didn't. I'm saying she never would.That's my meaning.This kind of person is not an equal opportunity "liberator of the oppressed."For those folks, It's OK to use foul terms to designate Jews and their situation--for a didactic thought experiment. After all, that's teaching, right? Lofty intent and all.But it would never be OK to use foul terms to designate blacks and homosexuals for a similar imaginary scenario. Not for teaching. Not for nothing except declaring class war.As the saying goes, some people are more equal than others in their conception.Mmm, mmm, mmm...Barak Hussein Obama...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 "This kind of person" --- a bit of an assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Carol,You're right--until this person comes to light.I basically meant the people who put together that part of the Common Core program. The teacher could be simply a person caught between a rock and a hard place and did not know what to do about it except follow orders.So "this kind of person" in my phrase should be understood from here on out as referring to the author or authors or ones who gave the orders to make a lesson plan targeting Jews. That could be the teacher, too, but I cannot say for sure at this point.So there.Not an assumption at all, but instead, a big-ass presumption.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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