Exceptionalism

[caroljane]

rYou have shut down the "jewish etc|" thread, where I don't think I said anything very bad, I would like to continue from my last post there and your comments on exceptions.

There is exceptionalism in every ethnic or national or ideological or ideological group - American exceptionalism is a prime historical example - and whether \jesus was an actual individual or just a concatenation of the remarkable thinkers, preachers and magicians of his turbulent time, he was certainly a Jewish exceptionalist.

Brant - apparently your Civil War was all about Canada according to a recent NatPost article!

Carol

we're everywhere, nowhere is safe

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Carol,

The error is to attribute exceptional individuals to an oversimplified cause and define that cause as a specific race or culture.

Sure there are a lot of exceptional people in the USA, for example, but which part of the USA are you talking about? Inner city ghettos? Backwood swamps? The desert?

Hardly. But are the people in those places less American?

That's obviously not the cause. So why the insistence on collectives as the reason? Especially collectives that lead to bigotry?

Try this. It's the attitudes and habits adopted (by free will) in pockets of individuals within a culture that is the true cause of fostering exceptional individuals within that culture.

There is no magic essence of America, or Jew, or Muslim, or even Canada that produces exceptional individuals. It's not genetic, it's not metaphysical and it's not magic.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Carol,

btw - I reopened that other thread. I gave my reasons there.

Michael

[Robert Baratheon]

I've noticed that certain occupational groups have developed their own "exceptionalist" ideologies as well, perhaps most visible in the firefighter, police officer, and military communities. There is typically an "elite" status asserted by the group, even when no such status exists in reality, and they frequently want to be evaluated and compensated differently from all other occupations, including those with higher worker fatality and injury rates in the private sector.

One fireman from my home state defended the 80% disability-pension retirement rate in his department to me as follows: "It's a tough job. I'm surprised it isn't higher." Under state law, disability pensions are tax-free, paid for life, come with free medical care for life, and are based on a higher percentage of base salary than normal pensions, with compounding annual cost-of-living adjustments of 5-6% (giving the pensions a doubling time of 12 or 14 years, respectively). Literally most police and firefighters in the state retire between the ages of 40-50 on "disability," then begin a new career, sometimes as a police or firefighter in a different jurisdiction (permissible under state law), and begin vesting a second pension while collecting the first. If a fireman gets any form of cancer at any point in his life, it is presumed to be occupation-related under state law and 100% of medical expenses are paid by the taxpayers, even if the individual is a heavy smoker or alcoholic. If one questions any of the above benefits, he or she is summarily met with accusations of "hating the heroes."

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

RB,

Talk about a detour...

Dayaamm!

Michael

[Robert Baratheon]

Michael - How is it a detour? I'm demonstrating that the exceptionalist mindset doesn't solely emerge on an ethnic or nationalist basis. Members of all manner of groups have a tendency to seek recognition for special, unique, or elite status. From that mentality, it's just a small skip to rationalizing special treatment on the basis of said exceptionalism, and then comes the inevitable torrent of abuses. This is why collectivism is so poisonous - it strikes at the foundation of a merit-based society.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

RB,

There's a big difference between feeling you belong to a group you somehow landed in and that makes you inherently superior to others just because and a Band of Brothers attitude within a group organized around specific productive activities.

One leads to bigotry and the other leads to fellowship. It's true that this last can--at times--deteriorate into a thuggish-like tribalism like certain trade union chapters, but that is still a far cry from bigotry.

It's a hell of a detour to pretend one is the other and then call it collectivism.

Check your premises.

Michael

[caroljane]

I've noticed that certain occupational groups have developed their own "exceptionalist" ideologies as well, perhaps most visible in the firefighter, police officer, and military communities. There is typically an "elite" status asserted by the group, even when no such status exists in reality, and they frequently want to be evaluated and compensated differently from all other occupations, including those with higher worker fatality and injury rates in the private sector.

One fireman from my home state defended the 80% disability-pension retirement rate in his department to me as follows: "It's a tough job. I'm surprised it isn't higher." Under state law, disability pensions are tax-free, paid for life, come with free medical care for life, and are based on a higher percentage of base salary than normal pensions, with compounding annual cost-of-living adjustments of 5-6% (giving the pensions a doubling time of 12 or 14 years, respectively). Literally most police and firefighters in the state retire between the ages of 40-50 on "disability," then begin a new career, sometimes as a police or firefighter in a different jurisdiction (permissible under state law), and begin vesting a second pension while collecting the first. If a fireman gets any form of cancer at any point in his life, it is presumed to be occupation-related under state law and 100% of medical expenses are paid by the taxpayers, even if the individual is a heavy smoker or alcoholic. If one questions any of the above benefits, he or she is summarily met with accusations of "hating the heroes."

Yes, I have noticed this. I have also noticed that police officers, at least here in Canada, are far less likely to be injured or killed on the job than any other classification of worker, where it involves physical labour. And that jobs which are physically difficult, tedious or odious, and which nobody wants to do from choice, are worst paid and least respected everywhere, unless they get unionized in which case they are both vilified and disrespected.

[BaalChatzaf]

I do not know how exceptional individuals are, but they sure are peculiar.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[caroljane]

I do not know how exceptional individuals are, but they sure are peculiar.culiar

Ba'al Chatzaf

Yes, they are peculiar in considering themselves exceptional and claiming special privileges.