caroljane Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Bureaucracy, gotta love it. Reuters reports that the R.I. police warned the Navy police (?? NCIS?) that Alexis was probably crazy. Told that it would be followed up. And it sure was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 And the ever-reliable AR-15 continues its cull.Last I heard the shooter used a shotgun.Let us consider an America with no assault rifles available to civilians. I'm a deranged, terrorist mass-murderer want-to-be. Can't use that M-15/16 or AR-47. Can't get one. So I set off an IED in a crowded movie theater. I release poison gas in the NYC subway. And I can think of something so vile I can't bring myself to even write about it. In fact it stopped my brain from functioning. We have to find out the why of these horrible things and it's not guns any more than cars and trucks cause most traffic deaths. That's just mental shorthand. --Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 The details that have come out about Alexis, show that he was alone, probably by choice. he had no family near, friends but no nearest one, no spouse or lover to try to get him help for the illness he was aware of. He tried to do that himself. It was not enough. when the compulsion to kill overtook him, there was no one to sound the warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Brant,Think about what you just wrote.What we are talking about is America with assault rifles available; regular massacres of civilians.Every train of thought continued to its logical conclusion is....scifi, or ridiculous.Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 And shotguns.--Brantmaybe more later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 And the ever-reliable AR-15 continues its cull.Last I heard the shooter used a shotgun.--BrantRight. Latest report: Surveillance video shows Alexis walking into the facility, bringing a bag into a bathroom in Building 197 and coming out with the shotgun, a federal law enforcement official said. It's believed Alexis had the disassembled gun inside the bag.From there, he headed to a perch overlooking the building's atrium and ... CNN 9:23 PM EDT For a similar case of mistaken identity, people who know nothing about aviation will identify any single-engine craft as a "Cessna." I think that the classic (if not standard) example is the "blue of black subcompact or SUV seen leaving." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 So the shotgun killed 12. The wrongly assumed rifle could have killed more in the same time? Some of those not killed people should be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 The details that have come out about Alexis, show that he was alone, probably by choice. he had no family near, friends but no nearest one, no spouse or lover to try to get him help for the illness he was aware of. He tried to do that himself. It was not enough. when the compulsion to kill overtook him, there was no one to sound the warning.It is a problem. But Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev had plenty of family and seemed to socialize well enough at school. So, maybe they were outliers, if any kind of profile actually fits. I agree with you that generally people who are well-socialized within strong families tend to remain in the norms in all walks of life. But, that, too is just an easy gloss. With your favorite search engine, start with "little league parents..." and see what you are offered. We forgot the Colorado Springs shooting at the New Life Church: The gunman believed to have killed four people in a pair of shooting sprees at a megachurch in Colorado Springs and a missionary training school near Denver had been thrown out of the missionary school a few years ago and had been sending it hate mail, police said in court papers Monday.The gunman was identified as Matthew Murray, 24, who was home-schooled in what a friend said was a deeply religious Christian household. Murray's father is a neurologist and a leading multiple-sclerosis researcher.Read more: on Fox News archives here And, then there's the Mafia, which was organized by families, for families, and into families.George Matesky ("mad bomber" of the 1940s and 50s) is often cited in criminology education as a case where psychological profiling identified the perpetrator, but if you read the facts, the psychologist, Dr. James Brussel, was only as successful as some psychics claim to be. (Matesky lived had a "breast complex", was neat, mild-mannered and Catholic, all as predicted. But that did not exactly narrow down the search...) I do not know if it is possible at all to "profile" someone before they commit a horrible (or noble) act. I do know that if you spend any time at all online in libertarian discussion groups, you meet a lot of people who live alone, served in the military, know a lot about guns, and have grudges against the government.Myself, I do not own a gun. I never served in the armed forces. And over the years, I have really come to care less and less about the government. In 2008, I voted for Barack Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Mike, you are disregarding the crucial factor, the psychopathy, the clearly definable illness. Situation, opinion, orientation may feed the pathology but only the active intervention of those close to the person, can prevent tragic consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 So the shotgun killed 12. The wrongly assumed rifle could have killed more in the same time? Some of those not killed people should be grateful.I don't know enough to say. Did he use a pump or semi-auto? I assume 12 gauge but don't know if he used slugs or shot and if shot what kind of shot. My 12 gauge pump is loaded with #4 buck. That's for close quarters in the home use. If I wanted to shotgun-murder a bunch of people I'd use slugs and probably an auto-loader. There are other variables such as target density and range and weapon familiarity. For me to be a mass murderer with a shotgun would require weeks of practice. With "the wrongly assumed rifle" one hour. If I were set to go and competent with both I'd use the rifle and likely kill more people. About Aaron Alexis--? Could be he couldn't get or didn't have a .223 assault rifle. Could be he just ran out of targets and would have run out of targets with either gun killing about the same number. The louder retort of the shotgun might have made the potential victims scatter faster. What kind of sights did he use? Etc. And I don't think there is enough info out yet about how he was stopped--killed. (I'm trying to avoid the news stories now.)--Brantsee my next post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Mike, you are disregarding the crucial factor, the psychopathy, the clearly definable illness. Situation, opinion, orientation may feed the pathology but only the active intervention of those close to the person, can prevent tragic consequences.Fascinating.Crucial factors like:The FACT that he should never have been given security clearance.The FACT that a simple Google search would have turned up one (1) of the two (2), or, three (3) incidences that involved a GUN oops, sorry did not want to call attention to the gun...The FACT that _______________________fill in your choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Brant: Not following the news, you have no facts, but that has not stopped you from commenting. I am not even going to tell you about the ammunition.Daunce, you cannot put everyone into a family; and it would not do any good if you could. If you read any reports of any tragedy like this, the family is always shocked and surprised. Again, see the Colorado Springs shooter for an instance: his father was a doctor; it was a Christian family. People are individuals. You cannot preordain their outcomes in life. It is a socialist assumption that the ideal society will produce ideal individuals. The individualist viewpoint is that if you improve the person, the sum total of all interpersonal actions will be good. But how do you "improve" another person? I have no idea. I have hardly improved myself and that is the sine qua non. It has been suggested here that libertarian utopianists are just another kind of central planner. True hayekian laissez faire is hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Carol, a month before her ninth birthday in 1923, my Mother, Ruth Brant, wrote several poems included in a letter to "Dear Grandma" I coincidentally casually came across during a pause in my back and forth with you. I mean I was walking through my living room clutter and looked down and saw the letter protected by clear plastic in a box. Here is one of her poems that made me go WTF!? It was the first time I had really seen it. Once before I had taken it from the plastic but only to read the last little poem, an ode to her sister, Robin, who is still with us, but not the others. What I'm quoting I had never read before today.To a CardinalOh sweet sweet singerDoth sing of thy brightplumage or the Lord?The Lord! the Lord!And the velvet mask itmoved!The golden beak it parted!High up! High up! The beau-tiful bird it flew.To stay, it went, To stayFor my cruel gun hadsent the beautiful bird to sitby God's own side."Cursed gun!" I cried,"Now meet thy end!"And hurled it in the sea.Now I heard a thousandvoices crying,"Man! Twas not the gun,But thy own hands,That killed the innocent bird." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Brant: Not following the news, you have no facts, but that has not stopped you from commenting. I am not even going to tell you about the ammunition.Please read me properly. I said "now." That's because I reached a saturation point after reading and seeing a lot of news about this.--Brantnow feel free to tell me about the ammunition; I'd like to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Powerful poem.Shooting at a Cardinal was a well set limit taught to me.Kinda like Scout in To Kill A Mockingbird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Aww.... poor little guy... You weren't even hungry... Golly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Has anyone looked into whether this dude who killed the 13 was a Muslim or a Crypto-Muslim. Recall what Hassan did in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Has anyone looked into whether this dude who killed the 13 was a Muslim or a Crypto-Muslim. Recall what Hassan did in Texas.I believe he killed twelve (12). He was number thirteen (13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merjet Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Has anyone looked into whether this dude who killed the 13 was a Muslim or a Crypto-Muslim. A Chicago Tribune article says he "worshipped at a Buddhist temple." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Has anyone looked into whether this dude who killed the 13 was a Muslim or a Crypto-Muslim. A Chicago Tribune article says he "worshipped at a Buddhist temple."Yep, that thread has been running since midday yesterday.Allegedlly travelled to Thailand inthe last year[?]. Joined a Buddist temple. Seems he must have slept through the reverence for all life forms part of his conversion."Hi!, I am a Buddist and you are about to join the stream of life...," does not seem to be the proper application of Buddhist principles.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Buddhists can get quite nasty, especially in groups, but who's afraid of a Buddhist terrorist?--Brantnot me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Buddhists can get quite nasty, especially in groups, but who's afraid of a Buddhist terrorist?--Brantnot menasty Namaste ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Has anyone looked into whether this dude who killed the 13 was a Muslim or a Crypto-Muslim. A Chicago Tribune article says he "worshipped at a Buddhist temple."I am sure that information will enable a large number of American Muslims to let their breath out.Whenever I hear about some nasty vicious scam that harms widows and orphans I pray: Please God, Don't let the malefactor be JewishBa'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Has anyone looked into whether this dude who killed the 13 was a Muslim or a Crypto-Muslim. A Chicago Tribune article says he "worshipped at a Buddhist temple."I am sure that information will enable a large number of American Muslims to let their breath out.Whenever I hear about some nasty vicious scam that harms widows and orphans I pray: Please God, Don't let the malefactor be JewishBa'al Chatzaf Bernie Madof must of fucked you up badly.Anytime a major bust is made of X ctime, I say a secret wish that they not have Italian names. I understand your feelings completely.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 "Brant" is English origin. "Gaede," German. I'm culturally an American WASP and haven't a care about this in the world.--Brantborn lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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