Peter Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 34 minutes ago, anthony said: Putin's not insane. Bad mistake to believe so. I don't see genocide as one of those "hidden agendas" but expansion, control, and death to all who stand in his way are part of Vlad's agenda . . . based on his actions, demands, and threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, Peter said: I don't see genocide as one of those "hidden agendas" but expansion, control, and death to all who stand in his way are part of Vlad's agenda . . . based on his actions, demands, and threats. And you believe he believes he could carry off that agenda? I'd come out of poker retirement to play you, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war in order to stave off a possible future brink , in the name of settling territorial disputes among similar peoples , is what? The most rational course? This situation is horrible for real people avoiding taking actions that can only produce added horribleness is the most rational and humane course. Good guys are the people trying to avoid horribleness , I’m not seeing a lot of good guys running this shitshow on either ‘side’. Putin ain’t Hitler and Zelensky ain’t Churchill , not even close enough to make a poor analogy , any reasoning that comes out of such a frame is jingoism and convolutedly so when espoused by other nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 6 hours ago, Peter said: That sounds like a Putin-esque argument. Peter, So you think Putin was using reason when he chose war before exhausting all else? You just indicated that my comment--where I essentially said he was not using reason when he invaded Ukraine--was somehow flawed. I thought you were against him invading Ukraine. Huh... Go figure... (See? That's what happens when one allows strong emotions to lead in thinking. One reads what one's emotions want the message to be. One does not see what the message really is.) Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, tmj said: Putin ain’t Hitler and Zelensky ain’t Churchill... T, That's for sure. And the Deep State sure wants the public to believe they are. It's true that those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. But one has to properly identify both history and the present to make that work. In the current situation, the people clamoring for war have no idea who the parties are, but they feel better when they peg them to characters from the past. That is their process of identification. This is a classic case of normative before cognitive. They are evaluating before identifying. And one cannot evaluate correctly when one has identified incorrectly. If the public ends up going along with the warmongers, society will be condemned to repeat real history when the analogies fall apart by events. And what is real history? Any event where misdirection was used to hide a real threat. To put it a different way, who benefits if warmongers push NATO into war with Russia? The answer: Communist China. Iran, too. And don't worry. Iran will soon have nuclear weapons. Biden and his peeps are making sure of that. Both of those countries have political factions in power whose ambitions, ambitions for real, are of conquering the world. I don't believe world conquest is Putin's aim. That doesn't make him a good guy, but it does make him pretty far from Hitler. EDIT: I forgot. The Deep State benefits, too. It sure as hell wants to conquer the world. It openly says so and calls it globalism. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 15 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Tony, When I saw that, I wondered, does Salon have good articles? Huh... Whodda thunk it? Then I saw it was by Chris Hedges, it was from another website and it was dated March 1. There. That's better. The world makes sense once again... Chris is one of a handful of lefties I respect. I don't agree with him a lot, but I respect his integrity to present what he believes, instead of doing like most and making up or repeating shit to manipulate a narrative. This actually is a good commentary article. Chris vividly portrays in concrete terms what war looks like to a person in it. Like he said: "There are no good wars." War sometimes is necessary, but it should always be a means of last resort, not first. Here are two quotes from the article I liked that indirectly illustrate this: and These are thoughts of reason. Choosing war without first exhausting all other doable means is not. It is possible--nay, a moral imperative--to hold both thoughts in one's mind at the same time to claim reason as the standard. Michael Yes, I had thought this was a rare, reasoned, nuanced (and impassioned, anti-war) article for Salon to publish. A truthful journo who rose above the Left's one-sided narrative and appeal to feelings alone. I also see the book Hedges published way back, warning of the Christian Right taking over; perhaps valid in that period of Pat Buchanan's influence*, but I think that ship has sailed. Here is another Salon article, linked on that same page - which will make sense of the world for you again. The CPAC conference, an item of which the author dismissively reported, had Conservatives drawing causation of "Woke" with Putin's war. "Somehow the left is to blame"? Well, pretty sure that's true: Wokeness-leftism at home will lead to perceived weakness and internal divisions seen from abroad, would be the reasoned connection. But there's more attention to facts and reason coming from conservatives, by far in latest years. *Correction - Pat Robertson, the Evangelist not Buchanan the politician Right's desperate Putin pivot: CPAC derailed by Ukraine invasion, struggles to blame "wokeness" | Salon.com WWW.SALON.COM Tulsi Gabbard, J.D. Vance and Nigel Farage furiously backpedal on Putin worship — but somehow the left is to blame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 Here is some real news about this fucking war threat. The negotiations are happening, not breaking off. LIVE UPDATES: Ukraine, Russia to Continue Talks Wednesday LIVE UPDATES: Ukraine, Russia to Continue Talks Wednesday WWW.THEEPOCHTIMES.COM The latest on the Russia–Ukraine crisis, March 15. Click here for updates from March 14. Ukraine, Russia to ... Like all news stories these days, you only get to the meat of the story after you have to sift through the agenda. At least there is some meat. Quote Both Russian and Ukrainian negotiators have voiced cautious optimism but haven’t spelled out any details of talks. To make the meaning clear, as opposed to all the crap before, two points stand out. 1. Russia and Ukraine are negotiating. 2. Both sides are optimistic so far. All the rest is noise--opinions and nothing more. btw - I am quoting Epoch Times, which is one of the best news sites out there in terms of objectivity. Yet even Epoch Times does this crap. So imagine what the mainstream news sites are doing. If you want real news about the current bellic situation between Ukraine and Russia, look for information like I just gave and pare it down to what can be confirmed in ways you trust. Don't believe anything else. You have to see it, but you don't have to believe it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 https://youtu.be/utkM1bwlXqE This chap can reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 Even Salty is making fun of the idiocy going on in the online wars about Ukraine. The gist is this. On places like Reddit, people are organizing to go to Ukraine and fight the good fight against Putin. Except there is one problem. When they get there, they find out there are no provisions and they get, maybe, a gun with 8 rounds in it. Then they are shoved into the front lines as cannon fodder. If they refuse to go or try to leave, they get shot in the back. So they go to the front lines to their death. Why? The propagandists need American bodies (and those from other countries) to show so they can embellish the victimization story and cuss about Putin. Reddit Soldier of Fortune in Ukrainian Warns It's a Trap & You Will Die WWW.BITCHUTE.COM article - https://twitter.com/KaczynskiOhana/status/1503737123261800452?s=20&t=oCwK4RHQcqafJyBn4sZi0A Website:... This is not a war. Like everything involving Ukraine and elites, it's a racket. Putin actually does need to be curtailed and defeated, but he won't be with these bozos. However, these bozos will get filthy stinking rich as people die all around them. Michael EDIT: LOL... My posts keep crossing with Tony. He keeps hitting the publish button right before I do. To dispel any gossip, this is not on purpose. We are literally on opposite sides of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 6 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: You just indicated that my comment--where I essentially said he was not using reason when he invaded Ukraine--was somehow flawed. No, Michael. I agree with you. I was trying to say that is a TYPE of reason Putin will use to justify invasion, murder, forced migration, and genocide. His argument? He was using his great reasoning powers. He sorted through all the facts and was left with no choice but to invade and murder. Reality and Reason made him do it. I think I saw a story where he is singing that song to the Russian people continuously. Will it continue to work? I think it will eventually become BS if the Russian people have some access to the truth. If we can bust him economically, I say we do it. If he continues on and invades Poland we would destroy him, his nuclear silos and as many of his subs as we can locate. Which brings us to what has held us back. Nukes. WWIII. Perhaps, this situation is why we don't hear from other "advanced civilizations." They all destroyed themselves, just as we of earth could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 47 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: This is not a war. Like everything involving Ukraine and elites, it's a racket. War Is a Racket - Wikipedia EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG War Is A Racket : Major General Smedley Butler : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive ARCHIVE.ORG Famous booklet by the ex high ranking Marine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Peter said: His argument? He was using his great reasoning powers. He sorted through all the facts and was left with no choice but to invade and murder. Peter, Sorry I misunderstood the beginning. Shit happens. As to your quote, I don't know what is in Putin's mind, but I doubt he believed he was left with no choice but to invade Ukraine. I see him as far more calculated. And more interested in showing strength on the world stage while taking advantage of a buffoon like Biden. Sure, he was pissed off about the NATO encroachment. But under Trump, I doubt he would have invaded Ukraine. I bet he would have found plenty other choices. Real fast. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 8 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: If the public ends up going along with the warmongers, society will be condemned to repeat real history when the analogies fall apart by events. Here's another one that will repeat. The groundwork for him to do this has already started. Saudi Arabia recently refused Biden's call. Now it wants to use Chinese yuan instead of the US Dollar as the reserve currency for international payments for oil. Saudi Arabia considering pricing oil sales with Chinese currency over US dollars: Report Saudi Arabia considering pricing oil sales with Chinese currency over US dollars: Report WWW.WASHINGTONEXAMINER.COM Saudi Arabia is considering the Chinese yuan to price some of its oil transactions rather than the predominantly used U.S. dollar, according to a report. This ain't good... And it's happening right under our noses while the Deep State has everybody lathered up hollering "Muh Ukrainesssss! Let's bomb the shit out of Putin!" Total misdirection and patter. Keep an eye on the other hand... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 As to convoluted jingoism, BAP is always a fun read BAP Covers Ukraine, the European Right & Freedom – The American Sun THEAMERICANSUN.COM Submitted by BronzeAgePervert When I look at this terrible brother war, and the way not only Russians and Ukrainians are fighting, but also, in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 That's some negotiation tactic, there, Putin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 This is in jest, but I kinda like the idea... From John Lennon's son: I don't think that would work on our side, though. Imagine the Biden crew on acid. They would look like their friggin' normal... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 This should be familiar to people who are into Ayn Rand. From Zelensky's speech to Congress earlier today (see transcript here)--my bold: Quote “'I have a dream.' These words are known to each of you today. I can say I have a need. The press is now going apeshit saying, over and over, "I have a need." What could possibly go wrong? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 You won't get this in the fake news press, but I say it needs to be looked at. The mainstream press and the predator class are denying it with so much gusto, it's setting off my antenna... The Battle For Bio-Labs: Webb Says Nuland, Strzok Behind Secret Labs In Donbas The Battle For Bio-Labs: Webb Says Nuland, Strzok Behind Secret Labs In Donbas WWW.REDVOICEMEDIA.COM Catch every segment of the show at StewPeters.com Go Ad-Free, Get Exclusive Content, Become a Premium User. Last week, journalist George Webb joined us to Here's the video directly on Rumble. The Battle for Bio-Labs: Webb Says Nuland, Strzok Behind Secret Labs in Donbas RUMBLE.COM Ukrainian biolabs are being funded by the U.S., and former FBI agent Peter Strzok has now placed himself at the center of the bioweapon production scandal. Expert and journalist George... And wouldn'ja know it? FBI lover boy Peter Strzok is right in the middle of it. It seems like the FBI was running cover for the CIA. Here is George Webb's twitter account: George Webb Sharyl Attkisson follows him as do several other people I follow. Webb says Strzok's history is very, very interesting, including his father... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just when you think you know who the nasty guys are (overwhelmingly) and who're the good guys, mostly, up comes another angle and fresh twist. Zelensky turns down a reasonable offer of peace for a neutral Ukraine, one he would have grabbed earlier, in fact, proposed himself. Is the hope of having NATO - i.e. Poland, Slovenia, C.R - 'peacekeeping' support, a no fly zone and a "more muscular intervention" - going to his head? Does he actually believe Ukraine will win this? At what cost? Is this war lurching towards a wider confrontation? Publicity, image building and public perceptions have overtaken reality. Peace Talks Fail, Poland Pushes Armed "Peace Keeping" Mission For Ukraine WWW.ISRAELUNWIRED.COM The latest peace overtures from Russia to Ukraine have reached another impasse, even though Russia apparently gave Zelensky what... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I really like this guy. No matter the few differences I might have, truth, principles, free minds, values and individualism are his concerns. He may offend some viewers' aesthetic sensibilities - an error assuming Brand is shallow, from that. A great show this one. Neo-Nazis "are good", this month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just goes to show , some nazis can be very fine people . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 It's really late right now, so I haven't seen the full video below. But God, the part I did see was like taking a moral bath. Laura Logan is only interested in one thing, the facts/truth. She sees it like I do. There are no good guys amidst all the hollering. FULL INTERVIEW: Lara Logan: Ukraine, Nazis, CIA, and United Nations | Flyover Conservatives RUMBLE.COM Today on the Flyover Conservatives Show Lara Logan ties together President Zelensky and Ukraine with Nazis, CIA, and the United Nations. Lara Logan is a multi Emmy award winning journalist and... I will finish this one. Michael EDIT: I finished it. This is a great video of reason in the midst of the abhorrent state of dishonesty of today's media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 20 hours ago, ThatGuy said: That's some negotiation tactic, there, Putin... "The number of casualties is yet unknown". Seems, from the insubstantial follow up reports, happily, everyone survived in the theater shelter. No "number of casualties". But what do I know. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiLnYLGvM32AhVKasAKHWNZAT4QFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2022%2Fmar%2F17%2Fmariupol-theatre-ukraine-civilians-russia-war&usg=AOvVaw1e89m1dq1xL4WC_NoWqqQM For "a genocide", Russia is doing pretty poorly. Moscow denies the attack. But what do I know. Except, no one should lightly toss around the word genocide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 India Today goes into the varied war casualty reports quite neutrally, I think (considering India is rather Russia-inclined). Unlikely to see this impartiality in other papers. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj9gt6Ixc32AhULilwKHZEBCNcQvOMEKAB6BAgFEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiatoday.in%2Fworld%2Frussia-ukraine-war%2Fstory%2Fhow-many-ukrainians-and-russians-have-died-in-putin-s-war-1926514-2022-03-17&usg=AOvVaw3a-S8RrKAjWgeCqMIVs5rb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Talking about his own Russian critics, with shoulders hunched and staring down the barrel of the camera President Vladimir (Vlad the Impaler) Putin: "The Russian people will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors, and will simply spit them out like an insect in their mouth onto the pavement.” edit. I see there may have already been videos posted of Vlad saying the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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