Herb Sewell Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Mrs. Ayn Rand always advocated being as autonomous as possible, which is why she supported capitalism. But,If you delve deeper, you will soon realize it is impossible to be COMPLETELY autonomous in a capitalistic society. People rely on each other to make and produce goods and in turn enter into a social agreement. The only way to rely fully on yourself is to retreat into the wilderness and make a livelihood their on your own. I am a little concerned since this thought counteracts my objectivist beliefs. I would appreciate civil responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbeaulieu Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Herb,Working with others is a necessity for survival from the capitalist angle, as you stated. The key point of autonomy is freedom. We "should" get to decide who we purchase from, trade with, and sell to. We should not be regulated in any lawful transactions with others. In other words, we should be completely "free" to choose who we deal with in a capitalist society. ~ ShaneEdit: Also, I think this definition of autonomy applies to your statement, taken from dictionary.comAutonomy - independence or freedom, as of the will or one's actions: the autonomy of the individual. Edited July 20, 2010 by sbeaulieu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) Capitalism involves division of labor. Socialism does too. So what? Edited July 21, 2010 by Ninth Doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merjet Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 It depends on what exactly is meant by "autonomous."One definition here is "functioning independently without control by others."Your hermit example is more like "functioning independently without contact with others." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Capitalism involves division of labor. Socialism does too. So what?Right. And living in society implies you're not "autonomous" in the sense of being completely alone and not involved in any interaction with others.It seems to me Herb is accepting the caricature of autonomy and of individualism that's accepted by most sophomoric thinkers. That is, that one can't be an autonomous individual unless one is completely cut off from everyone else -- if not everything else. But individualism is really about how people in society can and should get along; the problem of individual autonomy à la individualism (as in Rand's views or in those of other individualists) doesn't arise unless it's in society. (This is akin to how one need bring up or worry about property rights if there are no conflicts over material things.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 It depends on what exactly is meant by "autonomous."One definition here is "functioning independently without control by others."Your hermit example is more like "functioning independently without contact with others."Yes, well put. In Rand's and other individualists' terms, autonomy is about where the locus of control is: in the individual or not. It's not about, say, being able to farm your land, bake your bread, make your clothes, and living on a rocky island off Scotland without relying on anyone else for anything.Often the "hermit" image is raised to bash individualism as if the choice were living like the hermit or living in society and, thereby, giving up any claims to autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriggenbach Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 The only way to rely fully on yourself is to retreat into the wilderness and make a livelihood their on your own.Is the illiteracy part of your act as "Herb Sewell"? Of do you actually not know how to spell "there"?Just curious.JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 The only way to rely fully on yourself is to retreat into the wilderness and make a livelihood their on your own.Is the illiteracy part of your act as "Herb Sewell"? Of do you actually not know how to spell "there"?Just curious.JRWouldn't this be a usage and not a spelling error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 The only way to rely fully on yourself is to retreat into the wilderness and make a livelihood their on your own.Is the illiteracy part of your act as "Herb Sewell"? Of do you actually not know how to spell "there"?Just curious.JRWouldn't this be a usage and not a spelling error?Their isn't any their their. Their!--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Sewell Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 The only way to rely fully on yourself is to retreat into the wilderness and make a livelihood their on your own.Is the illiteracy part of your act as "Herb Sewell"? Of do you actually not know how to spell "there"?Just curious.JRWouldn't this be a usage and not a spelling error?Their isn't any their their. Their!--Brantactually THEIR is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 The only way to rely fully on yourself is to retreat into the wilderness and make a livelihood their on your own.Is the illiteracy part of your act as "Herb Sewell"? Of do you actually not know how to spell "there"?Just curious.JRWouldn't this be a usage and not a spelling error?Their isn't any their their. Their!--Brantactually THEIR isKnow, they're isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merjet Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Their wasting space and causing unneeded scrolling. They could do like this instead: Reply to post #11. Blah, blah, blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reidy Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) I'd love to have a chance to find out. I wish I could open my shudders one day and look out to see that their already practicing it out they're, fully enjoying there unbreeched economic writes. Edited July 21, 2010 by Reidy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbeaulieu Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 My I's hurt! Stop! ~ Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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